Kresh and more

Date view Thread view Subject view Author view

From: Sandy Petersen (sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com)
Date: Mon 11 Apr 1994 - 09:04:40 EEST


Joerg, in conjecturing about the Kresh, sez:
>This would make the question why the Kresh started to move along in

>wagons, and how a new wagon/clan is started, more interesting.

        The reason why they started is, of course, a Big Secret. A new wagon is formed when a troop gets too big for just one wagon. I'm sure there's complex rituals involved in creating a new wagon. It's probably one of the secret Kresh rituals that they perform privately, out of sight of Doraddi eyes. They have a number of such rituals, and are quite open about it. "No, you can't come along. We're doing a secret Kresh routine."

>Somehow the Kresh seem to suffer from a mutated Jmijie virus. Could
>the end of the Six-legged Empire have been the starting point for
>the Kresh?

        I like the idea of the mutant Jmijie virus. The Kresh no doubt consider themselves a useful hybrid between Jmijie (always moving) and the permanency and security of the Oasis -- essentially a Kresh wagon is a nomad oasis.

        The Kresh of course think they have nothing to do with the Six-Legged Empire, but they'd think that even if they were direct descendants. More tellingly (maybe), their homeland in eastern Kothar is outside the boundaries of the old Six-Leggers. I suppose fugitive Six Leggers could have fled there during the destruction, but the general course of destruction for the SLE was from east to west, and most refugees ended up in Western Jolar for the final catastrophes. Eastern Jolar/Western Kothar was the site of a large-scale struggle at the same time, in which the nomads burnt back the invasions of the jungle, which had been encroaching ever since Errinoru's advent.

Nils W. asks:
>On the subject of Vithela I have a question: Sandy has in two
>postings mentioned Vithela as a kind of paradise for dead people
>from Kralorela. The Genertela book says only that the dead of
>Kralorela wait as spirits until the current emperor dies, and then
>follow him to Someplace Else. Is Vithela this Someplace Else?

>So, could Sandy... enlighten me?

        Vithela is where the spirits wait. When the Emperor Passes On, the spirits go to the next stage of existence. This place is unattainable and unvisitable by normal Gloranthan abilities, including Heroquesting. Perhaps it is Solace in Glory?

>Also, would other easterners, like the inhabitants of the East Isles
>share this belief?

        Almost all East Isles folks believe that they go to Vithela when they die. They do not necessarily know about the Emperor connection, but in my campaign, when a Kralori told an East Isles guy that the Emperor's Passing took all the dead in Vithela to another stage of existence, the East Isles guy just said, "How nice for them." and thought little further about it.

        Some East Isles people believe in a different afterlife, but just for themselves. For instance, the plant people of Faranvagoth know that they become One With Araganthosas when they die.

        The Vormain folks know about Vithela, but I don't know if they think they go there.

Newton sez:
>Krarshtkids are at their best crawling around on the ceiling and
>falling on adventurers, but what about at floor-level?

        Clearly, krarshtkids are exceedingly clumsy on the ground, Probably crawl about as effectively as june bugs on tile (scrabble, scrabble). They're even more clumsy when they try to attack. They can use their big claws okay, I guess, but what about their bite or tongue or spit? They got to rear up on one side to point their big triangular mouth at the enemy. Maybe they crawl upside-down, their mouth on top? Too weird?

        Or maybe they are vulnerable to being knocked on their backs when attacking.

Alex Ferguson sez:
>Personally I was disappointed when I found out a Kresh 'city' was a
>wagon caravan, and not one _huge_ wagon. Who me, megalomaniac?

        Perhaps this will cheer you up. The wagons are articulatable, and can be connected together not only at front and rear, but at the sides(!) as well, making a gigantic flexible "blanket" of wagons climbing over the countryside. When the terrain gets too rough for the mega-wagon, it breaks up into smaller chunks, reforming when the land once more is no worse than rolling hills.

Martin, taking issue with my theory that broos do not find one another sexually attractive, sez:
>One of the ways in which sex is used in the human species, as well
>as among other primates, is to express dominance.

        Broos aren't primates, for one thing. And among humans, if not other primates, intra-group rape is not a useful way to express dominance. If broos do rape one another, I don't think they get pregnant. I suspect somehow that broos can only impregnate members of other species (or, less certainly, for the rare female broo, can only be impregnated by outsiders).

        For some reason, this belief makes me also think that a broo would not attack another broo -- because there is no possibility of offspring, hence the violation of the rape is incomplete. Not that the broo necessarily reasons it out to that extent, but the act lacks its normal appeal. These beliefs of mine are based on emotional and mythological considerations, not scientific ones.

>I don't think joining an Orlanthi (say) cult other than one`s
>parents' is really any kind of `conversion' in our modern sense.
>After all, the cults are non-exclusive, unlike most earthly and all
>monotheistic religions

        Surely you jest. Modern monotheism is not particularly exclusive within the various groupings. The various Protestant faiths are non-exclusive. Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, Anglican/Episcopalians, etc. are tolerant of one another. The Orthodox sects are friendly. As are to some degree the various Jewish variants (Reform, Conservative, etc.). Ditto for Buddhist sects, and even Muslims feel a general kinship to other Muslims. And yes, I know that Muslims fight Muslims all the time. So do Protestants kill Protestants. This doesn't alter the general truth.

        Yet most 15 year old kids who go to church go to their parents' church. If Dad and Mom are Presbyterians, the kids probably are Presbyterians, too, though they may change later. Keep in mind the parents being Presbyterian in our later discussions.

        I see joining Issaries instead of Lhankor Mhy as being more like attending the Free Will Baptist Church instead of the Presbyterian one. Of course, certain sects most parents would try to keep their kids out of. If your son became a Storm Bull, you'd be a little sad, as if he'd become a Holy Roller or Jehovah's Witness. Or if your child expressed interest in Chalana Arroy, you'd doubtless try to talk him or her out of it, as if your kid told you he wanted to become a penniless missionary in New Guinea. But if he or she joined anyway, most folks would be proud, if sad. Of course, a few parents might be angry, "Who's going to run the caravan business after I'm gone?"

        Another logical way to look at it is lifestyles, rather than as religion. If your kid becomes a Storm Bull, it's a little like him becoming a member of a biker gang.

>Another possible fudge would be to say that if one has a parent in a
>"closely enough" (see previous hand-waving on this subject)
>associated cult, then this is good enough for a `free' initiation.

        Or if your uncle or aunt or cousin was an initiate in the proper cult, perhaps they could be your sponsor instead of your parents.

>Colour me morally relativistic, but I think speaking glibly of "bad
>gods" in any absolute sense makes no more sense on Glorantha than on
>Earth. No god's worshipper thinks of himself, or his god as being
>"bad" or "evil". If a Zorak Zorani thinks his priest is morally
>suspect, it'd be because he wasn't sufficiently zealous, or is soft
>on these Inherently Evil light-worshipping types, not because he
>engages in activities most humans would find utterly despicable.

        Alas, I'm no moral relativist. Most faiths on Earth proclaim similar acts as "good", from Muslim to Judaism, to Jainism to Shinto. I.e., I don't think there IS much moral relativism for humans, except for secondary crimes (like eating pork for Muslims, or drinking coffee for Mormons). But the big crimes of adultery, murder, theft, are pretty much agreed upon by unrelated cultures across the world.

        I think that most Gloranthan sects are similar, and that Zorak Zoran (for instance), being a troll-designed cult, tends to attract only the mightiest of assholes among humans for its cult members. Sure, he can defend his cult choice and the other Zorak Zorani would think he was a cool guy, and they would all agree with him that ZZ was the best, and the other gods weak shadows(?!) of his power, but ...

        Ditto for sects in which everyone is a jerk, like Malia. Sure Malia has her place in the world, but imagine what kind of person woudl WANT to become a shaman of this cult.

The above train of thought leads me into a secondary comment about species norms and species stereotypes. Obviously ZZ is not a particular terrible god from a troll viewpoint, and though the trolls who join it might be a tad more bloodthirsty than the troll average, they are still well within the species norm. But humans worshiping this god are probably pretty screwed up psychologically. Not because ZZ is "inherently evil" or anything, just because his faith and ideology doesn't sit right with the typical human mentality. I think this applies to elves and other groups, too.

>Another minor point: who/what are the denizens of the Yelmic Fifth
>Hell? Is it specifically trolls, undead, or both; or is it catch all
>for all the Really Bad things in hell, to wit anything not fitting
>the orderly Four Hells ruled by Lodril?

        I vote for the last. The Fifth Hell is probably bigger than the first Four put together.

Date view Thread view Subject view Author view

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 01:33:38 EEST