From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@sartar.toppoint.de)
Date: Fri 15 Apr 1994 - 20:40:18 EEST
Jonas Schiott in X-RQ-ID: 3639
> In the daily for Wed, April 12, Alex Ferguson brings up the problem of
> Trickster aspects:
I have been disappointed about the Tricksters' Rune possessions for some time. The God Learners' associations for Eurmal (Illusion) and Bolongo (Disorder) seem wrong to me, and totally meaningless for Genertela. (I blame this text on one of the Umathelan universities.)
For Theyalans, Eurmal is the logical successor of Ratslaff, so his Runes would be a double disorder, and maybe a single Illusion. The logical choice for the double Illusion rune (accompanied by harmony) would be Donandar, whose puppeteer followers tellingly are quoted in RQ2 as wielders of this Rune.
Bolongo? Who's that? A mask?
>> Does this follow the same pattern as `generic' (GoG) pattern of Trickster >> worship? Anyone have good guesses as to which aspects are associated with >> Bolongo? (Or come to that, with Eurmal, or with Rakenveg. I hereby bet >> my house Firebringer is (most usually) a Eurmal aspect, and Borotory should >> be compulsory for all Tricksters. <g>)
Anything which annoys. I'm almost inclined to make Orlanth's impests not a gift from Malia (for hearing her case against Ragnaglar), but a token of Eurmal (possibly gleaned from Malia anyway) in exchange for the protection Orlanth offers his Fool.
> GoG states unequivocally that any Trickster worshipper can get spells from
> any shrine. This is the pragmatic side of things, and to me, it looks like
> strong evidence that Trickster is One.
Just as absolute order is One, absolute Disorder is One. While trickster isn't perfect (which is perfectly disorderly), he approaches it suffficiently.
> Of course, there is also the
> confusing statement about different "Trickster-type deities" combining
> different aspects. I interpret this as a comment on the differing
> mythologies of various pantheons, e.g. Bolongo is normally associated with
> certain acts in the Pamaltelan myths and so will be seen as personifying a
> limited range of aspects.
Trickster is associated with a limitless range of mythic acts. In Pamaltelan myth it was Trickster (Ratslaff, not Bolongo, I think) who gave Lodril the secret of making men - and promptly mucked it up in the first attempt, the Jelmre.
> But a Bolongo worshipper visiting a Eurmal shrine
> can still learn the spell. I don't know what justification they have for
> this - perhaps worshippers of the Trickster have fewer illusions about His
> (Its?) limitations than the 'squares' do.
> It will certainly never be a
> problem for a Eurmalite; the Eurmal myths seem to encompass just about
> every aspect (except maybe Murderer), and an orlanthi trickster travelling
> abroad would probably just think "Hmm, they seem to have a different name
> for Eurmal around here".
I'd phrase it like this: "Hmm, Eurmal tricked them to believe his name was <choose any>."
> Of course, there is one practical effect of the aspect thing: it would seem
> to affect the geographic distribution of shrines, i.e. in an
> orlanthi-dominated region there would probably not be any shrines dedicated
> to non-Eurmal aspects (though it's unclear which they would be - in this
> respect Alex' question is very relevant).
This is one of my main reasons why Eurmal ought to be the source of Disorder: the source of Disorder would not allow himself to have an ordered cult structure. Illusion is a present, but secondary aspect of Eurmal, and hardly justifies his role as its source.
If Illusion was his main Rune, Eurmal would have a great illusionary cult hierarchy with lots of pompous offices. Doubtlessly the Trickster Great Temple (now lost beneath the Mourn Sea) constructed by the God Learners had this, but elsewhere the man trait is Disorder. (It won in Slontos, too...)
Brian Dickinson in X-RQ-ID: 3643
> argrath@aol.com writes:
>> Chaosium has an unpublished Eurmal/Trickster write-up that >> gives the distributions of the various aspects. When they said >> "well-travelled" in GoG, they meant _really_well_travelled_. >> Some of the aspects are only worshiped in two regions of >> Glorantha. I don't want to get into trouble by saying more, but >> maybe Someone In Charge will publish this in some magazine ... >> Codex, maybe?
I would publish any official cult write-up in Free INT, provided I get the permission and learn of its existance first. (Sorry, in German only).
> Yes please!! I've been trying to get information on Eurmal for some
> time, without any success. Does anyone know of any other sources of
> Eurmal info??
Make it up. Think of any embarrassing story about any deity, and blame it on one of the tricksters. By the nature of the deity we discuss, it will come true, or at least seem to be so.
> I'm also confused by the use of the name "trickster" for both
> Eurmal cultists and Nysalor Illuminates. Does this imply that
> Eurmal initiates are commonly thought of as illuminated!
> One of the lightbringers chaotic? surely not! - unless this is
> one of Eurmals more spectacular jokes!
Riddlers ask silly questions and disrupt normal life. Since that is what tricksters usually do - being a nuisance - they are viewed to be in the same category.
Illuminates aren't necessarily chaotic. Arkat certainly wasn't before entering Dorastor.
Yet another multi-purpose term like krjalki.
> Also what is Eurmals relationship to illusions. A recent TOTRM
> (not to hand unfortunately) had a Eurmal/trickster (again trickster?)
> hero with illusion magics. I had the feeling that illusions were from
> some other source - I first remember seeing them in Questworld (Lord
> Skydds(?) Manor).
In currently actual publications Eurmal is given as source of Tylenea's Power in Time. I contest this notion, see above.
> Can someone enlighten (illuminate?) me?
No, but I hope this will have tricked you. <G>
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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