From: argrath@aol.com
Date: Sat 23 Apr 1994 - 19:25:05 EEST
Joerg says:
"feudal jurisdiction (including the Praxian tribes)"
I don't think so, somehow. Sure, Praxians have nobles, unlike Plains Indians, but feudalism is a system of land tenure, and the Praxians are nomads. By definition, then, what the Praxians do is not feudal. And in flavor, it's nothing like feudalism. There's nothing I'm aware of to suggest that the Praxians have a hierarchy of nobility, from dukes and earls and barons down through knights to free men and serfs. The concept of reciprocal obligation, whereby nobles owe the duty of defense to commoners, and commoners owe a duty of obedience to nobles, is not limited to feudalism.
He goes on to talk about "some version of folkmoot or thing where selected people not directly involved decide on the case."
Well, actually, in much of history, Germanic law provided for people who DID have knowledge of the case to decide on it. Early Saxon law provided for a jury of knights with knowledge of the case to decide it. It's only relatively late in history that you get the concept of a neutral arbiter.
Scott says: "If someone hears a village/town resident crying for help when the PCs are laying waste to him, the villagers are going to gang up on the PCs. Should the PCs escape, the villagers may well hunt them down."
Yes, I think this is essentially what I said. What part did you not agree with?
And let me add another point: since nobles and other rulers
are essentially protection rackets with an air of legitimacy
(whatever that is), anything which smacks of an attempt to take
turf will bring out the nobles' bully-boys. In places like
Adari, anyone making a show of force is a potential threat to
Ofnili, and gets a "friendly visit" at some point. If the PCs
were shaking someone down, Ofnili's boys demand their share.
"Taxes. Pay up." "How much?" "How much you got?" So the
response depends on the ruler's assessment of the stability of
his regime and the threat which the action poses to it.
In Sun County, they don't like strangers. They also don't like their own folks stepping out of place. But when my PC's patrol of militia slaughtered half a town and sold the other half into slavery, we were able to justify our actions as in keeping with our authority. There ARE better role-playing possibilities when the PCs are part of the power structure.
Paul adds some stuff about Roman and Greek quasi-police. All those years of Latin class, studying Roman culture, and they forgot to mention that. ;-) I'd love to see the source for this information. It would have obvious application to areas under the Lunar boot. But I really don't think it'll look much like a 911 call (that's the emergency number, for you furriners).
I just hope the source isn't "Asterix." (Joke)
Paul says, apropos the hue and cry, "this sounds alot more medieval than ancient, if you don't mind my saying so."
Heck, say what you like. I freely admit I don't know how far back the hue and cry goes, but in Britain it does go to pre- Norman times, at least. Projecting it onto to the late Celtic/early Saxon analogue of the Orlanthi is a bit problematic. I'd have less trouble with it in Western-flavored countries than in Sartar. In Sartar, I would've expected a person to go to his kin and get up a posse to demand reparations. But KoS talks about a much more sophisticated legal system.
In any case, shouting "thief" in a market is usually sufficient to bring out the vigilante in every bystander. Still works in China, where the practice seems to go back to Confucian times, thus having no point of common origin with Western Real World legal systems.
Paul then adds, apropos Roman law, "In England and thus the US, this blended with the Anglo-Saxon common law to produce a strange mongrel."
There's very little Roman law in English law, and most of it came in through canon law. In Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and a couple other states, there's a good bit of Roman law through Spain and France. Canon law obviously holds a lot of potential to be mined for Malkioni church law. Until the late middle ages, the church courts enforced contracts, because a breach of contract was a breach of an oath, which offended God.
"I'm going to call the police."
"Shouldn't you call the church?"
"Call the church police."
"...All right. [shouts] THE CHURCH POLICE."
--Martin ("There's Another Dead Bishop on the Landing") Crim
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