From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@sartar.toppoint.de)
Date: Fri 29 Apr 1994 - 23:23:46 EEST
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 3840
> Deities without Secret Powers
> seem to come and go from nowhere, often sinking back into
> well-deserved obscurity -- like Sog.
Why do you think Sog has gone into obscurity? The Waertagi surely depend on his powers again, now they have learned Dormal's (not so) Secret Power. Of course Dormal would sink into obscurity or have to adopt another aspect should the Closing be lifted, _and_ anybody noticed (which is unlikely IMO).
> Now to relate the above argument to Glorantha. Er, In my
> opinion, The Veldang, Doraddi, Wareran, and Kralori are all the same
> species. It is possible (but I'm not sure) that the Brithini and
> Vadeli are a different species from Homo sapiens. I can't think of
> any other species in the genus Homo in Glorantha. Dwarfs, elves, and
> trolls are not even primates, in my opinion.
I would think that the immortal humans make up subspecies. There are the immortal Agimori (those who never drank water) as well, so maybe immortality for humans is to restrict oneself from reproduction - the Brithini who procreate also die horribly of old age. The Vadeli are rumoured to procreate as a means of keeping their immortality, though, and the rumours aren't pleasant at all. Probably of Brithini origin, yet not all the Brithini say is wrong.
> I classify trolls as a separate order within the mammals, the
> Styganthropa (yes, I know they're Things of Darkness, but we're not
> talking evolutionary descent here, but rather taxonomic similarity).
> Trolls give milk, have body hair, etc. They're obviously mammals. I
> think the nearest order to trolls are the shrews (also the nearest
> relatives to the Primata). Shrews are nocturnal, ravenous, mean
> beasties, and it seems to me that the trolls may not have "evolved"
> as far from their roots as have humans.
Thanks, Sandy! That's exactly where I placed the trolls in my evolutionary Alternate Glorantha/Earth game world. The trolls got their sentience when Trollmother, an underground being which had developed primate-like tool-hands and a 3D-sensory organ through her sonar, mated with a darkness spirit (I used a male hag, which is how I view more powerful and bodily present Dehori).
Although the german translation for the species of shrew is insect-eaters, I rather doubt the importance of giant insects for the majority of trolls, which live in the icy wastes of North Pent or Koromondol. I always felt that these hulking brutes would look good digging mammoths out of the snow or taking the charge of a woolly rhino.
> I classify elves as from the Kingdom Plantae.
Elves are a bit difficult to handle taxonomically, because there is the spirit component to take care of. I view the Aldryami somewhat similar to hive insects. They possess a certain degree of individuality, but they depend on the community of plants they are related to for the upkeep of their intelligence and existence. They still function after their hive has been destroyed (see Elder Wilds, Rist/Hellwood and Erigia/Rathorela), and may migrate to new homelands and adapt to them, but I strongly suspect that without a supporting forest they are unable to reproduce intelligent life. (This is indicated for the warrior elves bred with Accelerate Growth - they are spiritually deficient, not in full harmony with the forest, and probaby exempt from further reproduction.)
Is there a reason why the Plant Rune only has toyed with the Man Rune or its more primitive forms for its mobile species (elves, runners, pixies, dryads, even slorifings come mainly as humanoid, if rather primitive for runners and slorifings), or are there lumbering plant beasts in the heart of the elf woods predigesting dying plant matter for the trees?
I think the pixies are an attempt of the plant kingdom to become independent of the (after all darkness-allied) insects for reproduction. Wouldn't there be similar attempts to replace other animal functions?
I also think that the descriptions of elves as humanoids are too little plantish. While comparisons like peach-skinned or pear-bottomed might be actually true for elves, I tend to think these apply to youths and very young adults only.
All pictures of elves e.g. in Glorantha Bestiary showed some form of "mammalia" for female elves. While this certainly is due to artistical perception of the artists, I think the picture of child aldryami suckling nectar from their mothers (for lack of other words) bosom-flowers has some merit. Maybe the existence of Mammalia is one of the form principles brought with the Man Rune as building plan.
> Dwarfs I'm not sure of. I have yet to be convinced that
> dwarfs suckle their young, frex.
The Elder Secrets description of dwarf procreation heavily suggests
that they are victims of Bradbury's (?) Brave New World. They have
strangely developed ex utero ripening of a foetus, but not in vitro
fertilisation. Now there is something for a Mostali cultural hero to
develop...
I think the dwarfs do have vestigial mammalia, but they have successfully
suppressed their function by using the ex utero ripening of the foeti.
(Again I blame the morphic influence of the Man Rune.) This technique of
the dwarfs reminds me a bit of the Mabinogi story of the birth of
Llew Llaw Gyddes, so don't call it an anachronism.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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