Re: Various things

From: David Cake (davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au)
Date: Tue 03 May 1994 - 08:01:37 EEST



>
> One can live in a city without being initiated into its God, at least,
> I believe, in most cases. cf. "Pavis residents" in RoC. Note that
> requirements to remain initiated to a city god aren't very onerous,
> in any case.
>
Indeed you can, though refusing to become even a lay member might be a little antagonistic (but the Pavis cult writeup suggests that lay members tithes are pretty much the same as city taxes, which makes refusing to join more an economic than a religious question)
 Becoming an initiate (at least in the Pavis Cult) is the same as becoming a citizen, and represents a commitment to continued living in the city, and gives teh benefits of more active involvement n city affairs. I do not think that this is the sort of commitment that the city requires of all who dwell in it - in fact the Pavis cult writeup implies that they are fairly selective - they only want citizens who have the cities best interests at heart so you must be approved by the priests.
>

RE: Vadeli  

> The Vadeli are related to the Brithini like Cain was to Abel. Now, never
> mention this to the Brithini, but "Zzabur, Brother of the Devil" is more
> properly written "Zzabur, Brother of Vadel"...
>
I rather like this idea. And of course both sides will have legends that give a different version of the story (in much the same way as Cain would have you beleive that he was cast out for refusing to offer live sacrifice).

        In fact even if this story turns out to be untrue according to Greg I am still going to make it a common folk belief, if not part of the official word of Malkion.  

>

Re: Malkioni schisms  

> Rokari and the Hrestoli believe that Chaos comes from outside
> Glorantha, and that the Invislble God formed Glorantha either by
> reworking Chaos or possibly ex nihilo.
>
Fair enough. I see the Rokari/Hrestoli churches as being basically fairly similar in theology, but different in application and in allegiance (similar to the Sunni Shi'ite split). Of course, the real difference is that the Rokari are fairly secular (the nobles run the place, and the King has more authority than the Bishop), while the Hrestioli are a nation of religious fanatics, IMHO. Note that every ruler must have served time in the church. I think also that their knightly orders are much like the fighting orders ofthe Church, the Knights Templar or Hospitallar.  

> However, I am convinced by this argument that the Borists
> believe that there IS another god equal to (or better than) the
> Invisible God, and that this other god rules chaos. Presumably the

> Borists believe that by tapping this other god's minions, they lessen
> its' power, and thus enhance the IGs.
>
Which makes the Borists true dualists, like the Zoroastrians. Which is no
doubt vilest heresy, and probably the real reason why they are hated and suppressed. Of course, the suppression occurred some years ago, so they are now no more actively suppressed than (say) 19th century Cathars would have been. After all,the Church has got the much bigger and more current Hrestoli schism to worry about.   

> In addition, I now believe that the Galvosti believe that
> Chaos does NOT exist outside Glorantha, but rather that it comes as
> "a product of decay", exacerbated by the worship of false gods.
> Hence, the Galvosti feel that all non Malkioni are, if not actively
> Chaotic, at least Chaos-producing, which is why it's okay to Tap
> them.
>
Carrying on the dualist theme, it is possible that either the Galvosti or the Brithini actually do not believe that the Invisible God created the world, but that the Invisible God created souls, and the Devil trapped the souls within the world. the Brithini believe that the world is torment and chaos, and to bring children into the world is evil, and that our mission on Earth is to make it as much like the original heaven of the Kingdom of Logic. The Galvosti believe that the world is an illusion, and that the truth of Malkion is the only truth.

        Just ideas that I am floating around to see if anyone likes them. There is a strong thread of anti-worldly thought even in the Rokari (witness the Wizards calls against drinking, sex, gluttony), and having some of the schisms take this to extremes and connect it with the anti-chaos beliefs sounds like a nice idea - I also dislike having Chaos be too central an element in their theology, it seems too stereotypical fantasy, making them too much like a Moorcock style Church of Law. It also makes a good contrast with the various Henotheist churches, which all basically see at least parts of the worldly experience as a good thing. The only problem that I see with this is that it is a bit too much like the real world Cathars/Albigensians/ Manichaeists, but even that is not a problem - for a start I am sure that we give it some interesting twists (such as the Brithini desire to take the world back to before the Great Darkness, before Death was real), and having the generally much more powerful Brithini take on beliefs similar to the much less powerful historically.

        Actually, what we really want to do is work out the central tenets of each faith ( a la Credo) and then have the rest a subject of theological debate within the Church.

	Cheers
		Dave Cake


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