From: Alex Ferguson (alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk)
Date: Wed 18 May 1994 - 01:14:36 EEST
Sandy, confusing Lokarnos and Mastakos, as he is wont:
> I make this stupid mistake all the time.
What did I tell you all? ;-)
> Not only do the damn names sound alike, but they're both gods
> of movement. If only Mastakos had a more Orlanthi-sounding name. For
> some reason his name sounds Pelorian to me.
You're not kidding. In fact, if you pseudo-etymoligise "Mastakos" from the unknown form of Dara Happan and/or Pelorian found in GRAY, you end up with "Changing Air" (or perhaps "Good Change"). Maybe Greg believes in some sort of quasi-pan-Gloranthan Noscritic-type proto-language, or something equally weird. I can see players demands every language default to 1/10 value in every other language now.
> Nick Brooke sez:
> >someone else who claimed to officially know it [God Learner secret]
> >said that he could explain it in 5 words, but was rather put out
> >when I told him Greg said he could explain it in three!
> I could probably do it in three [...]
I wonder if we all now have second-and-a-half-ary knowledge of it.
> Unlike Earthly saints, Malkioni
> saints give actual magic powers to their devotees. Clearly, there are
> no "false" saints, especially since any saint must gain his powers
> from the Invisible God.
I think this is fishy: after all, much the same could be said about the False Gods, and indeed isn't. I suspect there are radical sects of Malkioni who think that worship of Saints who grant such powers is, in fact, crypo-Stygianism.
> [...] Saint Rokar can be worshiped by the Hrestoli.
> All they need do is claim that the Rokari have "perverted" the
> original saint's teachings.
Indeed they could, or they could claim him to be a False God, or that the Rokari mode of worship of him is Stygianist, or whatever other dirt they can dig up. (Not necessarily a great example, but I'm sure it's said of some, by other's adherents.)
> In addition, I believe that mainstream Malkioni have the
> belief that any good Malkioni, of whatever sect, can attain Solace.
I suspect this is true, but I insist that we don't neglect the non- mainstream. Wee Free Rokari, anyone?
> >Does this mean there is no pure-broadleaf forests in all of Glorantha?
> You mean besides in the tropics?
Yes, I mean pure "brown", as opposed to "yellow". Should have said "deciduous", in this context, I spose. I'll try to dig up some earthly facts before opining further.
> I suspect whale song is "personal", varying with the
> individual whale, rather than with the pod.
No, at least for orca, the variation is (broadly) by pod. I'd not be surprised if the baleen whales were Making It Up As They Went Along, though.
> Especially when you
> consider that a whale's song can be heard for hundreds, even
> thousands of miles under the sea (so I've read).
Not true for "little" whales, though.
> This would imply
> that whales may have a species-wide "culture", which is what I'm
> suggesting for trolls.
I agree that trolls do, broadly (with some exceptions) have the same (alleged) culture, but I don't think this is (entirely) because it's based on instinct.
> >Is Peloria really very monoculturous? I'm sure all sorts of grains
> >are found in various places about Peloria,
> I'm sure this is true, but even if you get lots and lots of
> different kinds of grains, your diet is still fairly dull without any
> meat. And I believe that in much of Peloria, poor peasants get little
> meat, whereas I believe that an equally poor Orlanthi eats goat or
> venison on a fairly regular basis.
Yes, I'd agree with this: Peloria is more citified (so more poor people who haven't just starved to death) and not unrelatedly, more inclined to "large-scale" arable farming, so more grain, and (proportionately) less meat. On the other hand, poor Orlanthi _do_ eat more vegetables... "Less venison, more turnip."
> Someone said:
> >>Light Priests may become Yelm the Elder members, their children may
> >>become Yelm initiates
> What if _only_ the kids a Light Priest had _after_ becoming a
> Yelm the Elder got to be Yelm candidates? Well, maybe not.
I assumed that was what Joerg meant. Personally, I think the reaction to this would be "who was he having sex with, and more to the point, why?" Wouldn't work for Harvar, though...
Martin Crim:
> Gary Newton (isaac@twics.com) asks about compatibility of magic
> across the good old GL divisions.
> [...] A weaker analogy, which I came up with myself, is
> that it's like training yourself to be a doctor or a lawyer.
Perhaps being a nuclear fusion specialist and a hippy mystic aromatherapist simultaneously would be a more pointed comparison. Hippy mystic nuclear fusion physicist cum aromatherapists need not reply to this message.
> Re: Heroplane
> Alex says, "assuming it has an 'objective' existance [sic]." You
> know what happens when you assume, don't you <G>? Or is that
> just an American joke?
It must be, I think. At any rate, I meant "assuming for the purposes of talking about it", not "assuming, since it's obviously true". We customarily speak of it as existing in a "not purely mythical" sense, though, since if it isn't, our model for heroquesting is going to have (even) more problems than we thought.
Of course, agreeing that the heroplane exists objectively would be a bit like agreeing that all moral values were absolute: it'd still leave the small matter of what they _were_.
> Alex on Peter: "Peter said 'What if there were a mythic "truce"
> or mutual understanding between Solar and Storm worshipers?'
> (pardon my paraphrase, Peter)."
> Well, I don't know if Peter will or not, but I think you
> ought to go back and look at what he wrote before you use that
> particular paraphrase. 'tain't what he said, nor even close.
Well, it may (well) not paraphrase _everything_ he was saying, but it was what he appeared to be saying on the aspect I addressed myself to. That he was also making a more general point about mythic reinterpretation changing reality shouldn't prevent me from picking holes in his example, even if I agree with said point.
> Nick in X-RQ-ID: 4011 finds the GoG statement of all-saints-to-
> all-cults ludicrous, and will not countenance it.
> [...] In Islam, Jesus and John the Baptist, along with the Hebrew
> prophets, are recognized prophets.
While perfectly true, this doesn't really go to Nick's point. That different religions or sects share _some_ deities/prophets/saints isn't very compelling evidence that if two religions agree as to who their important figures are, they have to agree on _everyone_. After all, Jesus and John _predate_ the founding of Islam, while most (?) saints cropped up afterwards. The more divided a religion is, the more desparate the hand-waving required for them to "share" common entities becomes.
David Dunham:
> Alex Ferguson said
> >I've noted that city-dwellers are an irreverent lot.
> Another possibility is that city dwellers are a far more reverent lot.
> Right there, within walking distance, is a Major Temple. It's _easy_ to be
> religious! You don't have to walk two days just to get to a temple! You can
> show up every week!
I'm sure temple attendances aren't bad (at least on Holy Days), but I think the total ammount of religious commitment is likely to fall off. Perhaps not much of a factor in "cozy" Sartarite cities, though.
I wonder if weekly worship makes much of an impact on the religious "oomph" of a temple/cult: we may have to wait for The Primal Order: Glorantha to find out.
Alex.
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