Aeolian cosmology, saints.

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From: Alex Ferguson (alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk)
Date: Mon 23 May 1994 - 00:56:26 EEST

Joerg, me::
> > I forget the whole creed, but Maker and Grower spring to mind, and the
> > identification of Glorantha, Ginna Jar, and Arachne Solara.

> The Ginna Jar identification is common Lhankor Mhy prattle, hardly God
> Learner.

Oh? Why do you say that? Is this identification actually part of the creed, btw, or was it just a `marginal gloss'?

> This entity isn't worshipped directly, so why the hubbub?

> Grower and Maker are part of the cosmology, explaining the basics of
> Creation in one paragraph.

Well, I did _say_ it was specifically the cosmology I was talking about, not the henotheisist aspects of worship. Only the dwarves and elves trundle these two out, even cosmologically, I think.

> [...] I took the mainstream 3rd Age cosmology as per GoG.

If that isn't a confession of God Learnerism, I don't know what is.

> The presence of knights would have prompted
> any subgraduate God Learner to prove the Hendriki were Malkioni, so even
> if Arkat had only given them knights, the Empire of the Middle Seas would
> have given them the Invisible God.

This'll be the Backup Emergency Rationale, then? Let me reiterate, I'm not trying to Alex your campaign, by any means, I just don't see the imperative for the sorts of things you suggest, if, as you imply in between times, this stuff is _just begging_ to become official.

> > Minor quibble: they didn't, really, as Hendriki "knights" aren't a
> > Malkioni-style caste or class, much less anything at all like modern
> > Hrestoli knights.

> Right. They are most similar to Hrestol's original idea of knights.

That's begging the question. They are _thanes_, who just happen to be called knights, according to the source.

> > Certainly not to the extend that a millenium later,
> > a country in the middle of theist territory would end up as IG-inclined as
> > central Ralios, who have Seshnela breathing down their necks. That they'd
> > influence them in military matters is easier to believe.

> For one thing, knighthood wouldn't have survived without the appropriate
> hero cults, which happen to be Malkioni Saints.

Knighthood is a remarkably mundane concept, when it comes right down to it. I bet there are "pure" Malkioni knights who don't even engage in "pseudo- cultic" saint worship of any kind.

> And in Nochet there is a group of Malkioni living in the catacombs more
> often than on the surface, surrounded by theists on the streets, who kept
> their _pure_ faith even against God Learner influence

We're talking about mass conversion here, not covert, residual sects.

> [Quivini settlers from the Holy Country]
> > Indeed, but they and their fellow colonists, who were likely to have
> > similar motivations, don't seem likely to be fertile ground for rampant
> > Malkionisation.

> Then why did they leave, if back home everyone and his cat were good
> Orlanthi?

I think we (sort of) agreed several messages ago about Malkionised overlords; I think the _bulk_ of Heortlanders are still recognisable as Orlanthi, though. e.g., would see being a sorceror/wizard as being incompatible with most cult vows. I'm not sure that even the upper crust are frequently sorcerors, but if they are, I don't think the hoi polloi are, nor would I favour having a unitary religion for both which explicitly includes both "options".

Alex.

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