From: Sandy Petersen (sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com)
Date: Tue 24 May 1994 - 09:46:48 EEST
Devin Cutler asks:
>I would also be curious as to what kinds of compaigns the "scholars"
>are running.
I run a world-spanning non-heroic campaign. Any heroism and world-shattering activities the PCs have to do on their own nickel. I feel that this enhances their feeling of accomplishment should they succeed. The party currently consists of: 6 Ygglinga; 1 snow troll who was stranded on the island when the ice melted last spring, and made friends with the locals; and 1 wandering friar from Nolos (Rokari: Wizard: finds caste strictures hard to obey).
The Ygglinga are a variety of religions. Their island decided that Ygg had failed them, and was seeking for another Way. Some of the PCs decided that the Orlanthi pantheon from Junora was pretty similar to Ygg, but more powerful (so we have two Orlanthi, a Humakti, and a Storm Bull). Another faction of the PCs decided that the gods were worthless -- look at Ygg, after all. So they became Ancestor Worshipers. (There'd been a certain amount of Ancestor Worship in Ygg's faith already, so it wasn't hard to switch.)
I admit I too dislike campaigns where everyone starts off some weird incompatible thing, but I _like_ campaigns where everyone starts off compatible, and as new characters join the party (through death or retirement), they are from the local area. This means that as the campaign progresses, the party gets more and more mixed up. However, the older PCs, who would normally be the most incompatible, as they come from the most distant lands, are also the most cosmopolitan, from their journeying.
Someone asked how to do the training and catchup time. We skim over it as fast as possible. Usually the shaman spends time searching for spirits to bind, while the other PCs train in Ceremony or some other simple task. I'm not too generous about what types of Training are available in an area, so the PCs do a lot of Research, or train one another (if skilled enough). But all the training, etc. that we do rarely takes more than 5-10 minutes, even including the shaman's spirit combats, and then the rest of the evening can be spent being chased around by triceratops men or whatever.
Glen Bailey wants to know about thieves:
>Thieves (okay, Eurmal worshippers). I'm a little confused on their
>actual "worshipping".
Okay, here's an essay on Gloranthan thief organizations.
Glorantha does not have the so-called "Thieves' Guild", a creation of Fritz Leiber, who invented it in a (successful) attempt to demonstrate that his city of Lankhmar was _so_ old and decadent and hide-bound that even the _thieves_ had a "guild!" Then TSR idiotically assumed that every city had a thieves guild, even inventing a special character class. Ludicrous, IMO.
All over Glorantha, cultures are afflicted by the social parasites of thievery. Most lands do not have organized crime, But some do. Pavis, for instance. Fonrit actually boasts a multi-city-state organization (highly unusual).
Okay, so who are the thieves? As I see it, there are three basic types of thieves. The most common type everywhere is the "lone wolf", or "adventurer" type. The next type I recognize are those crooks that belong to a "gang". The third are those who belong to a true crime "cult".
FIRST: the lone wolf. This doesn't mean he operates solo -- just that he has no connections with any organization outside his own small band. In Sartar, who are the thieves and robbers? Well, Tricksters perpetrate lotsa petty theft, but I don't see them as pulling off many "big jobs". Most Sartarite thieves are probably Orlanthi, driven to burglary by poverty, outlawry, lack of scruples, or war. In my campaign, there is no organized crime in Sartar or even Tarsh. Bandits, yes. But one group of bandits has no real connections with any other group except for occasional friendship. America's Wild West bandits, or England's 18th-century highwaymen are fine examples of these guys. Griselda and Wolfshead and their friends are this type of guy. Many PCs operate basically as this category of thief/robber/bandit.
SECOND: the "gang" member. The Black Fang group is well-known as an example of just how bad things are in Pavis, and of course the Black Fangers sometimes visit Sartar. In Sartar, Black Fang is mostly known as an assassin's guild, since that's what they do there. But in Pavis, they have their fingers all over the place. Black Fang is a pyramid organization, with one (or a very few) rulers at the top, controlling the shamans, who in turn control most of the members. Everyone who worships Black Fang in essence is under the thumb of the gang's "leaders".
Most "Gang" organizations in Glorantha I imagine are social or otherwise secular, with no real cult organization. Black Fang is an exception. The Lamsabi thief network is probably a gang organization like this one, though it's hard to prove.
Most civilized thief "cults" basically consist of a group of criminals in some old populous city who have found a common hero, spirit, or other entity which provides them with magic powers. I predict that even as Black Fang acts as the focus for a spirit cult, that there is a forbidden thief "Saint" worshiped in Northpoint or Tanisor by Malkioni burglars.
THIRD: cult activity. I suspect that the Lunar Empire's main criminal network is the Krarsht organization, most members of which have no idea they're worshipers in a chaos cult. The alarming feature of a Cult criminal group is that it cannot easily be ferreted out or prevented. Since there is no single cult leader, a temple can be started up anywhere. The Atyar aspect of the Thanatar cult is also this type of organization, at least in Kralorela.
Not all Glorantha criminal cults are chaotic in nature, of course. Most are probably not, like Lanbril.
Martin Crim says:
>Isn't there a contradiction between saying peasants can up sticks
>and leave, on the one hand, and saying that each society is
>controlled by an oppressive military-religious cabal?
Not really. I feel that Gary Newton was trying to say that, since peasants could easily leave, some societies reacted by becoming even more amazingly harsh, and (mis)using religion to keep their peasants in line. Thus using not only physical, but mystical pressures to hold onto their folks.
I felt the situation faced by Safelster's leaders could be approached in two ways. Consider East and West Germany before reunification. Neither nation had much emigration. West Germany didn't lose skilled workers because they were well-off in their own country. Why leave? East Germany didn't lose skilled workers because they laid a minefield & barbed wire all round the border, and had plenty of secret police keeping an eye on everyone. Both techniques "worked", though obviously we think one is the better solution, and I can see both solutions "working" in Safelster. Compare to England's Brain Drain from the 1950s and '60s, in which many of Britain's "best and brightest" fled to the Land of Opportunity to escape their home nation's dismal economy (and presumably, cooking ;) )
Dave Dunham mentions:
>Surely [Lodril's] Pamaltelan worship is very different from how he's
>treated in Peloria. I suspect he didn't make Agimori in Pelorian
>myth, and in Pamaltelan myth, the solar brothers might be unknown.
>And what about his worship in Teshnos?
Certainly emphasis is placed on different parts of Lodril's worship in Pamaltela than in Peloria. But if a Pamaltelan Lodril worshiper came to Peloria, and claimed that all the Agimori people were manufactured by Lodril, the Pelorians probably wouldn't contradict the statement. The solar brothers may not be known in Pamaltela, but a Yelm priest announcing Lodril's relationship to the Sun might be accepted (if misunderstood).
I think that Lodril in Pamaltela provides pretty much the same spells as in Peloria, and he also has priests and acolytes. I wouldn't be surprised to find that different skills were emphasized in cult membership and, since he's considered a war god in Pamaltela (and Teshnos, I think), a "Rune Lord" status might be added to the cult structure. Pamaltela may also have a way to add shamans into the cult structure (non-Rune spell receiving shamans, IMO). But such alterations I view as well within the parameters of societal differences. The rune spells are still the same, the lowfires are still part of the cult, the spirit of retribution is probably still the same. But other subcults, the addition of a Rune Lord, and a shaman status, and different skills all would work towards making the cult look different, I agree.
Sandy
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