From: Nick Brooke (100270.337@CompuServe.COM)
Date: Fri 27 May 1994 - 23:49:38 EEST
> What published materials would people recommend for starting off a new
> What materials would be best for more experienced players?
Nice to hear from you again!
The same for "more experienced players": novice role-players or Gloranthans will learn a lot from the package discussed, while those with experience in either will be able to contribute a lot, too.
As for RQ2/RQ3, there's not that many problems in "trading up" (IMHO), and you may find it easier to run the scenarios under the rules they were written for. But if you feel you need familiarity with the rules to teach the newbies, use whatever you're at home with!
> How would an Orlanthi clan chief deal with a young man from his clan who
> had been caught robbing strangers? Fines? Banishment? Confinement? Lop
Strangers, eh? If they're too weak to cause trouble, he'd have a good laugh and expect to receive a cut of the proceeds. If a war looks likely as a result, he'd order the thief to make amends and sort things out somehow -- Orlanthi responsibility rearing its ugly head again. In the thief's shoes, I'd either run for it (effectively banishing myself) or return the property and try to laugh it off (somehow). I doubt any of the penalties you list other than "extra work" would be appropriate in Orlanthi society for that offence. Theft from kin might meet with banishment. Theft from the chief himself could make him angry enough to do something rash, like maim or kill the thief, but he'd regret it later (when the invoice for the blood-price landed in his tula).
Orlanthi hang traitors (out of touch with the Earth, their Wind strangled within them, their bodies left to the tender mercy of the elements), and IMHO some have any defeated rivals who are too dangerous to leave alive beheaded (Humaaaakt!).
> The reason you can tell a 4th century ruin from a 16th century one is
> that you are the happy recipient of centuries of scholarship in arche-
> ology. Your adventurers don't have this advantage, and neither does
> anyone else in their society, if it is at all comparable to premodern
> societies on earth. Remember Shakespeare and his clocks striking in
> ancient Rome.
I predict that your qualification, "if it is at all comparable", will be attacked. But I'm not the man to do it, as I agree with everything you've just said. Now, I hope I'm not becoming a repetitive old fart, but have I mentioned yet that Malkioni cultures and fashions and so on only *seem* to have been stuck in a mediaeval time warp since the Dawning because modern Malkioni heroquesting knights and wizards *want* to see knights and wizards who act like them in the ancient past? Just as Real World mediaeval authors wrote about the great knights who fought their battles in the Bible, the Tale of Troy, the various Matters of Greece, Rome, Britain, etc.
In Gloranthan terms, King Arthur used to appear as an otherworldly Celtic warlord to Celtic heroquesters; now he also appears as a chivalric king to knightly heroquesters. Fixed history and evolving mythology end up marching out of step, as David Dunham perceptively noted re: the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm. I think this is a Good Thing, though I already know others differ. It's obvious how it links to my beliefs about subjective heroquesting.
> The melding of the cults together such as in the Lightbringers' Ring
> would provide much more strength through different gods coming together
> and the use of different powers. All this indicates, to players of
> Runequest, that they can continue to be together as they advance in
> their relgions. It is not uncommon to have a group of high-level
> characters.
I agree. The other thing we notice is that high-level characters become in some ways like avatars of their god. And there are two perfect examples of this, both in Troll Gods and both involving Arkat.
: And then there were four or five Arkats all who seized upon the limbs : of Kwaratch Kang faster than I could tell. They weren't there, then they : were with the rune lord held helpless and Arkat made some swift move, : ignoring the terrible magics which were cast at him, and with his bare : hand he killed Kwaratch Kang.
And Arkat's companions were indistinguishable from him (cf. Black Arkat in the Troll Cults book; can't find my copy just now, so no quote).
Now, at RQCon (Columbia), during Greg's HeroQuest seminar, someone asked if it would be possible for a party of heroquesters all of whom worshipped the same god to heroquest as aspects of that deity: one being Orlanth's sword skill, another his rhetorical ability, and so on and so forth. Greg said it was possible and likely that this kind of thing would happen. I mumbled (*) a question along the lines of: "Would this be something like the way Arkat walks around, and there's just one of him, but sometimes he has a load of companions who all look like him and act the same way as he does, and can't easily be told apart from Arkat, and sometimes he can split himself up into loads of different people, who all do what he wants?" And Greg said that my question had answered itself. +1% Illumination.
(* -- I was mumbling it because it was mere moments before my own seminar started, the first time I'd ever done one for an unfamiliar audience; I had no real idea of how it would work, and Greg's talk was a *very* hard act to follow. Sorry it didn't come out well enough to transcribe on any tapes; I hope this late exposition helps Peter Michaels and/or David Cheng put the book together).
Anyoldhow, it struck me at the time (and only stage-fright prevented me saying it) that this was like the known Gloranthan phenomenon of Orlanths Thunderous, Adventurous, Lightbringer and Rex being treated as separate deities, perhaps even as rivals (WF#13, p.7):
: It is common for people to speak of three or four well-known forms of : Orlanth as if they were comparing different gods. In some cases they are : treated as different gods with competing priesthoods, religious prejudice : and system snobbery.
Well, I thought I should bring it up, now folk are claiming Orlanth speaks with one voice the whole world over. In the light of this quotation, it is still be possible for this to be so: if the gods have split personalities.
Likewise, on the god Yelm, Greg wrote:
: The first [Yelmic society considered] is the primitive nomad culture : of the horse barbarians and the second is the splendid empire of Dara : Happa... It is interesting to note that these two cultures were : traditional enemies and spent centuries in bloody conflict. Documents : relating to this schism in the Universal Empire of the Sun are interest- : ing to read. First Age tales make a big deal about the Sons of the Sun : who quarreled and helped bring about the Darkness. Early Middle Period : documents delve into philosophy and semantics, while later ones flatly : state that the nomads were heretics and were actually worshipping a : false god (often identified as Gbaji). Such documents are all of Dara : Happan origin, obviously.
Maybe Divination doesn't provide such clear-cut answers, after all...
> Does anybody else on the list want to read anything more about this
> initiation argument (or, for that matter, the related threads)? I'd
> like to see the Aeolian church write-up, but debating it before seeing
> it seems a tad ... something. Anyway, subtle hints from several
> quarters having failed, I join in the plea for a cease-fire.
Seconded. I helped Joerg develop his ideas; I think many of them are good. I've visited Aeolian Heortland in David Hall's campaign, and seen Bishops and Storm Voices side by side in the king's stone hall. I look forward to seeing the developed Aeolian write-up in a Digest, when Henk sends it out. But the current, long-running Joerg/Alex thread has me lost and bewildered. Nobody has been able to join in with anything like the fervour of the two originators; tangential contributions are ignored, in favour of the point/ counterpoint between the RuneQuest Daily's two tallest contributors.
Hey: you'll be able to post and reply to each other _several_times_a_day_! This could be the start of a beautiful relationship... <g>
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