From: Sandy Petersen (sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com)
Date: Wed 01 Jun 1994 - 08:54:23 EEST
Jonas Schiott mentions:
>The New Fens are no longer _in_ Ralios, they're in Maniria.
Clarification: the New Fens have not changed their position. When
first written up by Ken, Greg and I did not know what to call that
part of Glorantha. Later it was decided to name the south coast
Maniria, and the New Fens became part of it, though most of its
inhabitants were either native to the New Fens, refugees from
Slontos, or folks migrating south from Ralios.
Alex mentions:
>while I can believe Aeolian wizardry exists, I'm skeptical of it
>being practiced en masse.
I haven't followed all the discussion on Aeolian wizardry, but surely only 9% of the Aeolian believers even _qualify_ for wizardry, no? (That's the percentage of randomly-generated humans who have a 10% magic bonus.)
>I see no reason why any or all of the following cannot exist:
>a Stygian-style IG/CA cult, with (some) CA rune magic; a
>Petersenesque Saint-style worship of CA, or a subcult thereof; a
>cult of St. CA, granting specialist healing magics. One might then
>start to wonder if these were all the "same" CA, or even the "real"
>one. And?
I'll buy it. However, I submit that the third variety, the "cult of St. CA", is more likely to be a monastic order of specialists, as practiced by the Malkioni. Operators of hospital/convents. Practiced in this fashion, I can see the cult propagated even into Tanisor, until some burst of iconoclasm trashes them, which I suspect periodically happens to all the "false" saint cults (i.e., those based on entities worshiped by howling pagans).
I have long been an adherent of the belief that deities can be worshiped in a "false" manner. Ere now, most of the false worship I've considered has been shamanistic in form (i.e., a Pent medicine man summoning up the Dark Mother to get the Blinding spell, never realizing he is really worshiping Kyger Litor).
>This is a weird one. Doesn't [Arkat's Blessing] break the
>pseudo-rule that illumination is not magically detectable?
Yes.
By the way, I deny being a Hrestoli simp except for the obvious fact that if I lived in Glorantha, I'd rather be a Hrestoli than a Rokari. HOWEVER, I'd rather have my PLAYERS be Rokari, when I'm running a RQ game.
>I think the considerable majority of Hrestoli worship saints in this
>way, but that many Rokari do not, regarding it as Stygianism by
>other means.
Of course, there's just as many heresies up in Fronela facing the Hrestoli, but for most of the last century the Closing has kept 'em away.
I believe that the Rokari say that
>>humans are always committing sins because we are evil by nature.
Alex asks:
>I wonder why the Malkioni would beleive this.
Beats me. Why do most Christian churches believe this? Well, regardless of why Earth sects believe it, we need a reason for the Rokari to do so. A likely possibility is that humans aren't innately evil -- instead, the World around us is evil, because it was corrupted during the Darkness. Because we are continually surrounded by evil, we naturally tend to act in evil ways. Maybe even our bodies are evil, because they're made of the corrupted substance of the world (only our souls are pure, inasmuch as we don't taint them with sin).
If the Rokari believe this, it would help explain their tendencies towards iconoclasm and asceticism.
>Whatever's wrong with just _starting_ a crusade? [as a penance]
Nothing, if the penitent is a Lord, and the Wizard in charge has someone he thinks needs thwacking.
>But I'm sure many Hrestoli also consider that they'd be "saved by
>grace"
Rather than being "saved by grace", I prefer to think of it as "following your star", in which some Malkioni feel that as long as you're true to yourself, it doesn't much matter _what_ you do. Now, if you follow this theory to its logical extreme, you needn't even worship the IG to get to Solace. In fact, eventually it becomes a form of Universalism.
Now, I think that the Hrestoli themselves are opposed to this materialistic permissive philosophy. I think they strive to do good deeds, and even occasionally take penances, though I also think they may believe you can do good deeds "in advance".
However, I think there is definitely a place for this pernicious belief (that whatever a man does is "good", sort of a super-moral-relativism). I peg this philosophy as being native to the Jonatings. Naturally, they don't let the peasants believe this -- _they_ have to worship Ernalda. But the rulers and knights adhere to this version of being saved through no act of their own, but by the IG's good pleasure.
So, here is my belief on the Jonating's Official Philosophy:
THE JONATING PHILOSOPHY: Every ruler, knight, and wizard ought to become popular, and they ought not to labor with their hands, but they ought to be supported by the people. All mankind will obtain Solace after death, so they need not fear nor tremble, but they might lift up their heads and rejoice, for the Invisible God has created all men, and has also redeemed all men, and in the end all men should have Solace.
THE JONATING PRACTICE: Therefore, it doesn't really matter how harsh or how terrible conditions are in this life -- after all, after death we'll all have Solace, and that happy afterlife will last so long that earth life is a mere blink. So it's perfectly okay to oppress the hell out of the peasants.
>Malkioni don't (apparently) appear to believe in Final Judgement of
>any (wholesale) kind, so presumably you go to Solace (or not) as
>soon as you die (or via purgatory, perhaps).
Perhaps the purgatory consists of having to spend a time in the spirit world, or some pagan afterlife, or even being a ghost. No doubt Hell is the same, but permanent. I think that some Malkioni (no bets on who, yet) believe that non-Malkioni are reincarnated after death.
>The fact that many different peoples now agree that the
>same entities appear in their myths is merely a reflection of the
>lies and propaganda spread by the GLers
There is absolutely no evidence that the same entities didn't appear in the myths before the GL (of course, there wouldn't be, even if Alex is right). But I do have at least one non-trivial bit of data supporting my theory that the Monomyth is a discovery, not an invention: Arkat, in heroquesting, noticed that he was able to go to the same place on different heroquests from different cults.
I said
> The crimes of the Middle Sea Empire were outweighed by their
>triumphs.
Alex points out:
The God Learners didn't destroy any continents, and would
have prevented the damage if they could. Let's not blame the victims.
>Pro: neat cult writeups.
>Con: destroyed a continent or so.
Loren mentions:
>Castrated Humakti from Carmania? WOW! What an insight! Who else
>could guard the haram like a Humakti Eunuch? And Eunuch even rhymes
>with Duck! Almost, that is.
Now, this makes ME think of something -- in one of my old campaigns, a human PC insulted a duck PC by calling him a "capon". 'Twas a nice double insult, as it not only belittled his manhood, but also subtly implied that he was tastier to eat than the norm. (Ducks HATE jokes about eating.)
Now, I know that "capon" isn't strictly accurate for a duck, or is it? Is there a name for a castrated duck? Does anyone do this? If a castrated turkey is also called a capon (is it?), perhaps the duck should be too? Thoughts? Language scholars? Anyone?
>As regards the wording, a geas is a geas, and they were certainly
>under a compulsion, so my use of the term is justified.
I thought you handled the hosing of your PCs by the Mostali well. However, the word "geas" is being mis-used here. A "geas" is _not_ a way to force somebody to go on a quest. It is a taboo which, if you break, you are harmed. The Humakti & Yelmalio geases are actually quite like unto the old Celtic ones in usage.
In my own campaign, the PCs sold one of their number (a snow troll) to a wizard (don't ask). When they realized what they'd done, they hastened to the wizard to beg for their comrades life. The wizard made them each eat a black wafer, and then told them that if they didn't bring him something better than a snow troll's liver in one year's time, they would die. This wasn't a geas -- if he'd instead commanded them never to lift their swords against a wizard, _that_ would be a geas. But it was certainly a quest under compulsion.
I realize this is just semantics, but if we don't use our words correctly, we're no better than the D&Ders saying abominations like "dweomer".
Graeme Lindsell complains:
>I want "good guy" Malkionists, ie some group that don't harshly
>oppress the lower classes and strangers (the Brithini, Seshnelans
>and the Jonateli do that admirably), Tap, and aren't raving fanatics
>like the Loskalmi.
First, I don't think you can find Good Guy Malkioni that Tap.
Third, the Rokari acceptance of castes doesn't automatically make them a bad guy, though it certainly allows them to do so. There was little advancement from peasant status in feudal Japan or Europe, but there were still no doubt happy areas in which the peasants didn't feel as though their rulers were abominable tyrants.
>How would the Earth Worshippers kill?
Feed 'em to the sacred crocodiles. Or dinosaurs or whatever.
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