From: Alex Ferguson (alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk)
Date: Sat 04 Jun 1994 - 04:58:37 EEST
Cullen O'Neill:
> Alex in X-RQ-ID: 4160
> A> I think Joerg's model, in seeking to liberalize worship in
> A> broadly laudable ways, does serious damage to the established
> A> significance and importance of cultic initiation.
>
> Happily, my presence in this debate becomes superfluous...
Don't say that, I'm trying to bow out ((dis)gracefully) of this one myself. ;-/ Perhaps a natural death of this discussion is in order.
> A> "What magical benefits should accrue to a person not an initiate of
> A> any cult, or to a person belonging to a different cult in the
> A> pantheon?"
> As I see it, what is needed is a broadening of the concept of associate
> (or whatever term anti-GL'ers would prefer), I think maybe anybody who
> is an initiate and participates in the rituals of a god can get the
> spell that god gives to associate cults... as single use only.
As I've pointed out before (to others), this isn't a uniquely defined spell. Does he get Restore CON, Restore INT, or Regrow Limb from CA? (Not that this is a big problem, just pick the locally most needed one.)
> What about the story of Hrestol's mother for instance, does anybody know
> anything more than is in "What the Priest said:"? This entry says to me
> that there is a legend of Hrestol at least, probably a whole
> mythologized history of the Malkioni we don't know about... we could be
> waiting a while to hear more about them, too!
> Maybe'll try to make up a Malkioni Mythology using what is available and
> my own ideas... I'll keep you posted if I make any progress, which
> probably won't be much. The knowlege that you're going to be Gregged
> is sure enervating...
There are some Malkioni parts of the Monomyth in GoG, but many of them are just standard God Learner nonsense like Taxonomic Genealogy. I'm sure there are appropriately rip-roaring tales of the Creation, the foundation of the Kingdom of Logic, the Ice Age and coming of Malkion, the Vadeli Wars and the Life of Hrestol.
While I'm not going to predict a non-Greg if these myths are fleshed out by anyone else, note that GRAY didn't introduce that much in the way of actual new mythic events beyond what was mentioned in GoG, but mainly just put a variety of new slants on what we basically already knew.
> G> And I know this isn't a heresy, but I'll mention it anyway, just in
> G> case... The society of the Malkioni is obsessed (to varying
> G> degrees...) with the idea of caste. Especially the society of the
> G> Rokari- who are historically fairly recent,
> Although they would claim otherwise... (IMHO)
Well, they admit to being recent, but say they have rediscovered ancient truths. Maybe they're right: our idea of post-Malkion, pre-Hrestol Malkioni is fairly vague, and corresponds in no obvious way to any current sect. (Unlike pre-Malkion and post-Hrestol.)
> G> The Henotheists interpolating a semi-feudal
> G> relationship between God and His Angelic Host... Ritualized social
> G> activity becoming empty religious ritual..? More expensive clothing
> Yes this sounds good, I wonder if the text could be so obscure as
> to allow a no 'angels' at all interpretaion... The bible is
> almost this obscure, I think... I'm assuming that Malkioni have
> a text... maybe they DON'T if its all oral then distortion is
> very easy! (Pardon my thinking outloud)
I think what's more likely is that there are a number of different of texts, which different sects collate and stress differently. For the Brithini, if it's not in the Blue Book, it's low-grade toilet tissue. For the Rokari, the most important text is the Malkion's Book of the Law, to which they append their own gospels of St. Rokar. The Loskalmi are great fans of the collected sayings of Hrestol. Then again, think of all the assorted creeds, doctrines, prayers, hymns and stuff earthly religions have thought up without ostensible addition to or modification of the recognised Holy Texts.
> Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 4169
> S> In the end, you have LOTS of extra rain over any Orlanthi
> S> territory. Magic ecology at its finest. Of course, PC
> S> adventurer-types probably won't get Cloud Call too often, but the
>
> This (along with Bless Crops) answers the question (in part) of why
> Sartar is so very different from Prax in climate. In WF4 Greg says that
> Prax and Sartar have different climates due to different magical
> ecologies (or words to that effect), is this what he meant? Or are the
> effects of Genert's death also more strongly felt on Prax, as I seem to
> recall...
This is the major effect, I think. The Garden was effectively Genert's "demense", there being no Land Goddess for the area. Hence, Bless Crops is buggered, and the soil quality and things like that depended directly on Genert, and his worship.
> But since cloud call is to the horizon shouldn't the areas on
> the east of Sartar also become lush (as they are), making them desirable
> as farmland?
Well, the Storm Mountains will tend to screen off the bulk of the climatic effects, and Cloud Call is local in its effect anyway. Thus you get a more dramatic "rain shadow" effect than on earth.
> Since it was the Sartars (Sartari?) who made it lush some
> of them might claim it was theirs... This might help to explain the Pol
> Joni?? But they're not farmers... so why is it that they aren't?
The Praxian marches are indeed more lush than the rest of Prax, enough so to support horses. Not enough rain or good enough soil for actual farming, though.
Ed Wallman:
> On the back of the pink Gloranthan Player (?) Book is a picture of a
> village dwarfed by a dragon's head. I heard the name of the village
> somehwere, but I do not remember it.
> My question is what kind of village is this?
A village of fatalists, obviously...
> Do all kinds of people
> live next to dragon's like that? The books all say true dragons sit
> around sleeping, but they seem to almost intentionally leave out any
> specific consequences of this. Kind of like, "And here is where a dragon
> the size of a mountain sits. And over here..."
Not unlike living next to a dormant volcano. Possibily even with similar effects on fertility, if dragon's intestinal processes continue in their sleep.
> If kids grow up in that village, I would imagine they play a game
> called "Poke the Dragon with a Stick" because kids are notoriously
> stupid (apologies to any former or current kids).
Accepted. I love this idea, but it's only possible to tell where the dragon actually starts with the very small ones, I'd think. Otherwise, what you have is really a dragon-shaped hill, the lower slopes of which have oodles of soil and rock piled up against/on top of the crittur, so that close up you can't even tell there's one there. This suggests the Advanced(ly Stupid) sport of Shooting the Dragon in the Eye, or Up His Nostril, or whatever anatomical detail is readily apparent.
> I cannot imagine there
> NOT being a cult dedicated to a thing laying a 100 m away with one foot in
> the infinity. Seers would probably prophesy based on its breathing
> patterns and digestion noises. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Probably. Unfortunately, as a matter of Gregged Gloranthan Fact, dragons are too alien to receive worship from humans (nor do 'newts worship them, as anyone else understand the concept). I personally favour a Summon Dream Dragon spell with the "material component" of a house-size well-sweated lump of ricotta.
Alex.
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