Artmali etc.

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From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@sartar.toppoint.de)
Date: Thu 09 Jun 1994 - 17:12:29 EEST


Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 4447

> Joerg asks many things about the original Jrusteli: 

>> All the transport [to move to Jrustela] had been provided by the  
>> Waertagi. What was their motivation to aid the enemy of their  
>> old-time allies, the Brithini? 
>	The Jrusteli were not at that time enemies of the Brithini.

> Even at the peak of their power they weren't so much foes of the
> Brithini as they were of the Waertagi. But they weren't enemies of
> the Waertagi either, when they first immigrated to Jrustela.

Glorantha Book tells us: "The Seshnegi Empire once reached all the way to Safelster, included the Fronelan coastline, and planted colonies in Jrustela. That phase of the empire ended when it tried to attack Brithos, and was crushed."

I recall that a Second Age Seshnegi King cum Emperor of the Middle Seas repeated this assault, and was as severely beaten.

Several questions come to my mind.

First, CoT tells us that the Seshnegi knights and the (probably Arolanit) wizards were att odds with each other until Arkat came and somewhat reconciled both factions.

The Waertagi were allied with both parties of old, in fact they provided the physical link between the continental colonies and the motherland.

Did they allow the sea-descended humans of the West (descendants of Malkion are descendants of Warera Triolina after all, and the Ygglinga also claim a naiad as ancestress) a certain amount of seagoing vessels?

Did the Waertagi transport the Seshnegi invasion force to Brithos? If so, was their fleet doing so sunk?

If they didn't, how did the Seshnegi attack Brithos? Did they use vessels of their own design? What forces did the Brithini employ to sink these?

Did the Waertagi allow this military expedition? Why? 

>	Also, you must remember that the Waertagi's source of income

> was entirely based on transporting other peoples' goods and persons
> across the oceans. I'm sure they were paid for their trouble.

I didn't doubt this for a minute. Yet I had the impression that until the closing they were staunch allies of Brithos. Seshnela twice had tried to conquer Brithos. Why should they further the concurrence of their major ally? 

>> Did they (too) remember Malkion's teachings of Solace Zzabur and his  
>> brothers (at least Talar and Horal) had forbidden to the Brithini?
>	Who can say? Who knows what secrets the Waertagi knew?

Someone ought to. I can imagine it would be fun to play 3rd Age Waertagi, with all the world's coasts open to them. 

>> (While I'm at it, what made them spread the (brown) Vadeli from  
>> their island remnants of former greatness across the world's ports?)
>	The Waertagi never spread the Vadeli anywhere. The Vadeli are

> now in Pamaltela as a result of a Third Age phenomenon-- the end of
> the Closing, when the Vadeli pulled their big scam on the coasts.

But they are also in any major Genertelan port between Northpoint and Dombain, possibly even in Lur Nop. Did they spread there during the age of the Empire of Land and Sea? 

>> (And do you know anything about the Awesome Bridge shown in that 
>> map?)
>	Yes.

Thanks for _this_ enlightenment. To continue the game:

Are you willing to share this knowledge with us? 

>> How big was this catastrophe (the end of the Artmali Empire)? What  
>> exactly did it consist of? 
>	When Chaos came into the universe, its initial point of entry

> was at the north edge, above the glacier. They tipped up the sky dome
> to crawl under it, and the sun fell from the sky, plunging right into
> the huge inland bay that the Artmali Empire was based around, and
> burning up everything there, leaving behind the Nargan Desert.

Which sun fell? Yelm was dead and gone to Hell, Antirius shone above Dara Happa, the Sun Dragon over Kralorela (?), Elmal over Kerofinela, Somash over Teshnos, Kargzant over the Pentan reaches, Yelmalio within the elf forests, Yamsur within Genert's Garden.

> Even the water caught on fire in that disaster.

Tanian's birth? The Artmali are grandchildren of Lorion...

> Even today, south of the
> Nargan you can find the Boiling Swamps, and further of that, beyond
> Pamaltela's southern shores, is the Sea of Fire, which is still
> burning after all these years. Only a few survivors of the Artmali
> Empire managed to escape, which is why today's blue folk live in such
> widely-separated areas.

What about Rahmuktara south of the Sea of Worms? A survivor? 

>	Note that in Agimori legend, the Lesser Darkness and the

> Great Darkness are not distinguished between. The sun's fall and the
> entry of chaos are conterminous. No doubt the God Learners had fits
> with this, because it's pretty obvious that Genertelan legendry
> distinguishes between the two events (except maybe for Kralorela).

As I understood it, the Lesser Darkness had only one thing as effect on Pamaltela: the coming of the trolls. There still must have been a sun (waiting to fall into the Nargan Bay).

Introduction to Glorantha book has an obscure mention of the Artmali Empire in the Second Age (p.10):

"In Pamaltela the early Artmali Empire was crushed, and its territories incorporated into the sea-borne Jrusteli Empire." 

>	The Artmali Empire was pretty much out of it by the time

> Vovisibor came along. Pamalt and the Agimori, previously minor
> peoples of Pamaltela, had to muster themselves against this mightiest
> of all threats. (I.e., Vovisibor is not a Veldang legend.)

The Bolongo legend I mentioned (Bolongo replacing the Emperor) clearly is a Storm Age legend, although not necessarily Lesser Darkness. Moorgarki certainly is a Lesser Darkness legend, because only the slaying of Yelm made the trolls leave Wonderhome.

> (I said Orlanth doesn't actually need worship.) 

>> Then how and why does the Red Goddess' progress pull Orlanth from  
>> power?
>	Her threat is much more fearsome than a mere attrition of

> worshipers. The Red Goddess's ultimate goal, from Orlanth's point of
> view, is to actually remove Storm as a major Rune (it might be able
> to remain behind as a minor sub-Rune, like Heat or Shadow). Such
> tinkering with the universe's building blocks is a Major Change of
> reality. No wonder Orlanth musters all his forces against her.

Then why does the empire ignore Ralios? Does the Emperor know about and rely on the reappearances of Arkat to overthrow Orlanth (Worlath, whatever) there? Being illuminated, the reappearanes of Arkat should have some impact on the Empire as well, either an opportunity to spread the Lunar way in Arkati dress, or a possible threat of another crusade from Ralios through Dragon Pass into Peloria.

(Arkat's Saga does mention help from Ralios, in the person of Kocholang's son.)

> A few Runes were left kind of on their own, without any
> obvious Origin. We didn't want to let any one god have more than one
> Rune as Origin (except Arachne Solara), so Change, Illusion, and
> Disorder couldn't all be Eurmal. We gave Illusion to Eurmal, and
> "created" Bolongo to be Disorder, then fit him into certain myths. I
> wrote up some tales of Bolongo, and even a debased cult "structure".
> Unfortunately, it's my opinion that when we started actually working
> on Bolongo, he demonstrated that he's probably actually the Illusion
> Origin, while Eurmal's spells and activities qualify him for
> Disorder. So there's a bit of a mix-up here. I suppose it's only
> natural with Trickster-type entities involved.

Why not leave Illusion with Dormal, as the puppeteer connection mentioned in RQ2 suggested, and leave Eurmal as the source of Disorder, only using illusion?

--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de

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