RE: Lotsa Stuff...

Date view Thread view Subject view Author view

From: CULLEN O'NEILL (cullen.oneill@thuemmel.com)
Date: Sun 03 Jul 1994 - 10:45:16 EEST


Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 4880 

N> And so the Kralori strive to eliminate the self? Different, less
N> limited kinds of magic would become possible for the one who Is Not.
N> You have no "handles" any more: the world cannot affect you, because
N> you are not part of it. Or, perhaps, because you *are* it. (Not a
N> part: the whole). (The whole which is the hole: as all is nothing).

Hmm... that is an interesting idea. But if you've eliminated the self and cut off all desires ("Clinging to nothing and also rejecting nothing"), what do you need magic for? See the poem at the end of this message for the rest of this quote.

N> Does this work for you? Or does it need more Taoism? You might be

Well, personally... the Kralorelean myths seem to me more like chinese folk religions, with the addition of draconic insights. How about instead of classic Taoism, Neo-Taoism with all the weirdness and magic that entails (plus a triple dose of draconic references), with a bit of pseudo-Buddhism thrown in?


Nils Weinander in X-RQ-ID: 4886 
N> calligraphy or dance. Imagine the surprise of characters from central
N> or western Genertela when they see a yellow-skinned man dancing up a
N> fire, or healing a wound by reading a poem.

An amusing image... The image of dancing up a fire would surely come as no surprise to anyone acquainted with shamanism though. I like the idea of the healing by poetry. It feels fairly chinese to me, with a bit of a twist it would do nicely. In China there were classic books of poetry, and knowing an appropriate verse from one of the classics (or being able to create one) was regarded as the mark of learning (I seem to recall). This could be easily made into magical poems that draw on the power of the universe (with a skill roll for discernment?), and it could be impolite to use a poem twice in the same day/week/year.

N> perfected your 'Spiritual enlightenment' and then die it is the final N> death whereafter your spirit becomes one with the universe.

Might I suggest a similarity between the Pure land sect's Sukhavati and Vithula? Thus you would have something similar to the actual situation in the Real World; With the vast majority hoping to get enough good karman to get into the pure land, where they will pass from the cycle when the emperor comes. A few monks and crazy holy (wo?)men will see the doctrines of the dragons more truly and realize that all of existence is unified, and that there are no enduring essences anywhere (I'm not really sure if including this level of similarity to actual Buddhism works in Glorantha, where essences are quite obviously all over the place).


Colin Watson in X-RQ-ID: 4896
>Barron Chugg:
>B> "is the god independent of the paths or not". 
C>
C> There was a time when the gods walked their paths for the First Time.
C> At that time the gods could be thought of as "independent" of their
C> paths. But today the gods *are* the paths. This is what people
C> worship; and also how they worship. This is the timeless nature of
C> the gods: they *are* everything they ever *did*.

I would tend to say that the paths are a metaphor, which is only true up to a point. The god is one with the path, but the paths are also one with the god, and are therefore in some sense conscious.

C> My theory is that anyone who does anything New leaves a small etching C> on the godplane. If you do something so great that other people want

Does this include actions taken off the godplane?

C> For a hero to ascend to Godhood he must perform actions so immense C> that others will want to follow in his footsteps. By following in his

I would say it is a little more complex than that, and involves the hero actively trying to create a set of paths on the Rune/Hero/God-plane. 

C> I was assuming "frame of mind" was part of the ritual. A certain
C> amount of mental discipline may be required, but I don't think that
C> the participants have to hold any particular beliefs (other than,
C> perhaps, the belief that the magic will work).  The way I see it,
C> Illuminates are only "special" in that they *realize* they don't have
C> to believe anything to get magic from the gods.

I quite agree. I wonder if there aren't rituals (initiations come to mind) in which the aspirant doesn't know what is expected of him, and if he reacts in some way that the god would not... he gets kicked out/killed/whatever?


Martin/Argrath in X-RQ-ID: 4904 
M> Clearly.  And an Orlanthi plowing his field, and an Ernaldan
M> baking bread.  If you are tuned in, everyday actions are
M> ritualized in a life-affirming way.

I quite agree. However extraordinary actions (which raise the emotional intensity) would naturally tend to be more effective as 'worship'. They also get more mention simply for being extraordinary. The everyday actions performed in emulation of the god are equally important, just not dramatic enough for discussion. 

M>      "These are my magical acts:
M>      Hewing wood and drawing water."
M>                --Some Taoist Sage

I'd hardly call P'ang Yun a Taoist Sage. Layman P'ang (as he's generally known) was a buddhist famed for his having gained enlightenment and getting transmission in the Ch'an tradition while still remaining a layman.

The complete poem reads (in (IMO) a less poetic translation):

There is nothing special about my daily affairs, I am simply in spontaneous harmony with them. Clinging to nothing and also rejecting nothing, I encounter no resistance and am always free. What do I care for the pomp of purple robes- The pure summit was never sullied by so much as a fleck of dust. The wonderous action of magical forces
I find in cutting wood and carrying water. 

                                        -Layman P'ang (c.740-808)

Cullen
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 05 Jul 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk

Date view Thread view Subject view Author view

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 01:35:40 EEST