From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@sartar.toppoint.de)
Date: Wed 10 Aug 1994 - 19:49:43 EEST
Peter Metcalfe in X-RQ-ID: 5566
> Subject: The Blue Wizard Taps Joerg!
Tap is a Touch Spell, and Sense Projection won't penetrate my defenses.
Fonrit:
> If you have a copy of Heros Volume I issue 5
Vol. 1 issue 6, actually, pp.36-39.
The oppressive regime of the blacks in Fonrit over the blue populace preceded the God Learners. Given that the accounts on Garandoros were written by the victors, he seems to be the one to blame for niceties like Ompalam. To quote: "Their gods were sometimes a relief from the oppressive deities invoked by Garangordos and his children."
You see, the God Learners tried to do something good, now and then.
> Presumably Arkat became Humakt's son by a similar method? After all the
> Brithini insist that his father was a barbarian warrior, nobody special.
From a Brithini point of view this describes Humakt, the Orlanthi deity, accurately.
Arkat's adoption/recognition was effected by Harmast Barefoot and his companions on their Lightbringers' Quest.
> The Kindom of Logic, what speculations are committed in your name? My
> understanding of the events is that the Stygian Alliance adopted a henotheist
> position which was anathema to traditional Malkion precepts.
Traditional Malkion concepts - a nice fiction, because they were utterly lost even before Time began. The henotheist position of the Stygians was in fact not too different from that of the Serpent Kings, in whose names temples were erected at Hrelar Amali, to "Orlanth" and "Magasta" (I wonder what names they used).
> What then of the
> Jrusteli Alliance? My guess is that they were not aiming for Malkion's proofs
> but to recreate the Kingdom of Logic which was ancient in malkions day.
I don't think so. The Kingdom of Logic was a self-contented land free of trouble or ambition, in fact its humans must have lived in a pastoral (or rather agricultural) bliss. None of the original Malkioni (now Brithini) castes really allows for city life. Nowadays crafters are counted among the farmers; maybe in this time they were the Talars, Horals and Zzaburs?
The Jrusteli, on the other hand, maintained an active empire with connections to everywhere.
> they were 'investigating' the False Gods to bring out the good points in them
> (ie Ehilm's fireballs) and leave out the bad (his selfish refusal to teach his
> powers). Because of this they saw the worship of pagan gods as injurious to
> their aims (perhaps of getting more converts).
Not exactly. The God Learners encouraged theist worship, the Return to T^HRightness crusaders wiped out pagan elements from Malkioni only.
>>There is a real sun in Glorantha.
> The first statement is a powerful rejoinder to those among us who would see
> myths as ultimately falsifiable.
Funny, I count myself among these.
>> For some reasons the god learners found it >>politic to identify Yelm universally with this sun, and I think they were >>responsible for renaming the sun gods of Ralios and Fonrit.
> I disagree with the second part in that the
> God Learners had very little control over the worship of Yelm who lived beyond
> the EWF.
Which might have been their reason to adopt that name as universal. "If we cannot change their way, we can adopt it and change all the others."
> IMO, the God of the Fonritians in the First Age was Lodril who is
> noted in pamaltelean myths as having ruled this land.
The Fonrit description makes it clear that the blue-skinned natives worshipped Artmal and his court, although fallen from power. The Agimori invaders came early in the Second Age, and they introduced the terrible gods of supression, like Ompalam.
"Lodril", like "Yelm", "Dehore", "Bolongo", Cronisper ("Dayzatar"), "Magasta", Yanmorla ("Gata"), Artmal and Annilla, is listed as one of the Old Gods of Pamaltela. Prosopaedia says: "Most were crippled or destroyed, but a few remain as advisors or friends of Pamalt."
We know that Bolongo, Cronisper, Yanmorla and Lodril are part of the Necklace of Pamalt. Artmal, Annilla, "Yelm" and "Magasta" aren't, to my knowledge. This makes "Yelm" and "Magasta" likely to be old Artmali deities, their names obscured by God Learner monomything. The fact that the Fonritian city-god Tondiji is more powerful than Yelm might well be due to the fact that the Yelm cult in Tondiji is a combination of the crippled "Yelm" of the Artmali and the imported Yelm from Genertela. (IMO, Tondiji is one of the deities imposed upon the Fonritians by Garangordos and his children.)
> The God Learners probably
> promugulated the worship of a more civilizing diety (Ompalam!) and introduced
> Yelmic worship to emphasize the meaning of bondage in the world
As I said above, Ompalam was most likely instituted by Garangordos, and "Yelm" is one of the Old Gods of Pamaltela.
> Furthermore Yelm is noted in kralori documents as ruling everywhere and
> organizing the world into its parts (or perhaps genertela): In Kralorela,
> Metsyla; in Dara Happa, Murzaharm and in Bliss in ignorance, Sun Storm. In all
> these cases, they are recognized as being different from the True Sun, Yelm.
A Kralori "everywhere" could stop at the western end of the Shan Shan Mts.
It is my hobby to argue against the universality etc. of Yelm as the True
Sun God. He is so in the Jrusteli Monomyth, and possibly that means that
he is the one and only Sun God ever since the later 2nd Age (although with
Somash present, I doubt that). However, before the monomything interference
of the Kralori, I believe that the celestial emperor Yelm (a universal
figure in myth, ruling the world in the Golden Age, which followed the
Green Age and the rule of the Earth, as also Greg's latest Pelorian
revelations confirm - cf. the introductory comments for his reading at
Convulsions) was not necessarily identical to the Sun which circled
around the Spike. Antirius (according to Plentonius already present at
Murharzarm's ten tests for the emperor) was the sun god who shone on
Dara Happa. Metsyla just was a light, not the sun - I don't know what
the pre-Daruda Kralori worshipped as the sun. Emperor Shang-Hsa
May-his-name-be-cursed made sure that the nature of the Kraliori sun
before the Sunstop he (among other forces) effected remained hidden
to the world when he destroyed all Kralori documents.
Sun Storm in Ignorance is as much the sun as is Basko.
No, I'm talking about serious candidates: Ehilm, Somash, Elmal, the Artmali "Yelm", and Antirius and/or (Yu-)Kargzant. Plus possibly others I've overlooked. Each of these deities was the true mediator of the solar powers of the physical body of the sun to their realms of influence, IMO. Yelm the Emperor just claimed ultimate rule over all realms the sun's rays touched.
> As for the Orlanthi myths about Elmal as identifying him as the True Sun: I
> think the myths written in KoS were an undoubted euphenism told to little
> children. The real identity of the Emperor would have been told to the new
> Wind Lord (during the Grey Age) in his initatory Heroquest as he slays the Evil
> Emperor only to find that he not Elmal is the Sun.
As valid as a theory as mine, I suppose, but I happen to think that it was vice versa. There still was a sun in the Storm Age, when the Artmali Empire flowered, but death and trolls already stalked the surface of earth. Only the Greater Darkness (which the Dara Happans would start with the death of Antirius, IMO) and the Grey Age were totally devoid of a sun. The Grey Age saw minor celestial bodies step in - Kargzant, Shargash/Kolat/Calyz, Yelmalio (the elf-deity), the Star Captains, Yelorna; plus other deities of fire - Oakfed in Prax, Amanstan among the trolls (what little use they had for a sun or fire), volcano deities like in Kimos, Caladra in Kethaela and Aurelion on the Western Continent of Jrustela. Lightfore was there at the end of this period, and prepared the way for the new sun, whatever its nature - Elmal according to the Orlanthi, Antirius according to the city-dwelling Dara Happans, Yelm/(Yu-)Kargzant (or similar) according to the Hyaloring horse lords (later Pent nomads).
> Afterall Dara happan myth
> says the Rebellus Terminus fled in terror after he had done the dead.
And not a single Orlanthi myth does, which shows that this is _not_ the way the Orlanthi view this incident.
> When Yelm returns to life, it is given in the perception of his
> recognition as the Grand Order rather than him being the True Sun.
My sentiment exactly, although in a totally divergent context.
> This makes Elmal, a orlanthi excuse for the sun. The real truth was a cult
> secret hidden at the highest levels to make the driving force of Orlanths quest
> for social justice.
I don't think so, because:
> The God Learners recognized this
to fit into their monomything theories
> and they treated it as such.
Yet not even they have Orlanth flee in terror.
> As for Elmal, I have identified Antirius as Yelmalio.
Which I don't buy.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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