Post #3 and still no GRAY....

From: Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty (
Date: Wed 14 Sep 1994 - 12:29:06 EEST

The Blue Wizard speaks again.

David Scott

DH>>>Whether this is true or not doesn't really DH>>>matter: what matters is what they believe.

PM>>So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the PM>>Hills of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this is simplistic.

DS>If any of my players said the above, they'd definately be labled as DS>dangerous heretic.

If a heresy proves more effective in combating the problems and issues of the society than the orthodox belief than it will eventually become the belief. I need only point at the Vegantarianism Heresy of the Mari Mountains.

DS>I may be wrong but arn't most religons about belief.

True, but in Glorantha, there are numinous beings in the otherworld known as gods. If you worship them *correctly* you will gain benefits from them. The religious beliefs of a culture are an attempt to worship a god or pantheon in such a way that it maximises the benefit that culture recieves.

DS>As part of their initiation, I'm sure most worshoppers would directly
DS>experience the suffering that Yelmalio felt on the Hill of Gold. Just
DS>because you can say I don't believe it, most wouldn't as they KNOW and FELT
DS>what really happened. 

The question is not whether One doesn't believe it, but whether it should be this way. The Orthodox Yelmalion says yes, whereas a tribe living close to a orlanthi cult that has a fixation with lets kill evil emperors everywhere and begins a mania of Solar persecutions may have second thoughts. One aspiring hero may decide to 'bring justice to the cold sun' and goes on the Hills of Gold quest in an attempt to wrest the lightning spear of Orlanth. He succeeds and has the bonus not only that he and his people can cast lightning and the Orlanthi cultists can't but he also gets fiery powers because he was able to beat off Zorak with the lightning spear.

When his priest performs the HHD ceremony, the myth is changed to what the hero did (we assume the hero did it for the tribe). Of course now he has to cope with the changed values of the people he represents (like Nick said) as well as the loss of some of Yelmalios truths. The changed values will largely be related to the unorthodox methods that the hero used in combating Orlanth. If he hid behind the bushes when Orlanth came along and bushwacked him then his people would start to become more cunning, indulge in guerilla warfare instead of the traditional hoplite tactics and so on.

Nick Brooke

>IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be like
>Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and HeroQuested/
>time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a claw-hammer to stop it
>from happening.

My thoughts exactly. Most Yelmalions would not think much of the 'Bring Justice to the Cold Sun' for the reason it brings them closer to Yelmalio. However there have been people who got the wrong end of the stick about some myths in every age. A belief exists among Muslims (based on an ambigous phrase in the Koran which can also translate as 'in crucifying him, you only gained a shadow of victory' or something like that) that Jesus wasn't actually crucified but an occult (normally means hidden powers in Muslim tradition) shadow so treated in his place. If the Caliph was ravaged by social turmoil and the antichrist is upon his borders (yes, Islam does have acopalyptic traditions similar to christianity), he might (assuming gloranthan magic was in effect in the RW - hahaha) go back with an occult shadow to Judea to bring back Jesus.  


Thanks for the update on Teleos. I'll now try and think of something weird.

--Peter Metcalfe

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