RULES -- comments on 2.0 draft

From: Burton Choinski (burt@ptltd.com)
Date: Thu 10 Jun 1993 - 00:59:15 EEST


Well, after Nick's chewing up of the 2.0 draft, I might as well go into
mine. I made some comments on the regular list, which may get cursory note,
but I will try to stick to new items.
===============================================================================RQIV PLAYERS BOOK

CHARACTERISTICS:
  Why not tweak a little towards realism and have slight differences in
  attributes for male/female humans as well? It's done for the other
  races.

  Now, the differences might not be much. Probably +1 to SIZ and STR for
  male, +1 to CON and perhaps DEX for female. Not much, but better reflects
  things I think.

DAMAGE MODIFIER:
  I agree with Nick -- replace the extra die with a simple +/- bonus to the
  base weapon damage. Nick had a table that looked good to me.

PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE:
  As I noted (and someone else as well), chuck the fractions. Multiply all
  values by 4.
  1 BP now equals 25 hours of training (1/2 week).

  I wonder, seriously, how many games will start off with novice level. I
  run my starting players at Expert, since they want to get right into the
  thick of things without being overclassed most of the time.

  If it is decided to go to smaller, but more well defined occupation
  packs (Soldier, Sergeant, Night Watchman, Honor Guard, etc), perhaps a
  leaner way is to assign each class a specific number of "Pack points",
  each of which is used to enter a career (perhaps some real hairy
  occupations require 2 instead of 1), and a set of "general points" which
  are used to get the extras now handled by BP.

CHARACTER GENERATION:
  I agree with Nick -- Yank the rolled culture/career stuff. That or place
  it all in a "Book O' Tables" pamphlet will all this random, but sometimes
  useful stuff in it.

MAGICAL BACKGROUND:
  Should not be chosen as a parallel effort, but be a reward or result of
  the proper career choice. At present it's kinda Bass-ackwards, where you
  choose divine magic background, then must take Initiate to justify it.

BECOMING AN INITIATE:
  Folded in, just like the other careers. But is usually the first or second
  pack taken, if you become an initiate at such early ages.

OPTIONAL SKILLS AND TRAINING:
  It's background, it's abstract anyways. Just present a list of skills,
  likely source of training (Criminal, Military, Civilian, Mercantile, etc)
  and cost in points. Spend points as desired to up levels in those skills.
  Perhaps some skills cost more for really opposite backgrounds (i.e.
  street thug skills for high-born nobles).

  So the process is: spend Profession slots, use your extra points to
  round out the rough edges from the careers.

  An optional conversion from Occupation slots to Extra points (and vice versa)
  should be provided, but limited to 10% of either (to prevent total
  conversion to Extra points and buying skills as they will).

BUYING OPTIONAL SKILLS WITHIN ONE'S PROFESSION:
  With the above system, upping a skill provided by the occupation slot
  using extra points may get a reduced price, perhaps 25% to 50% off.
 

CHARACTERISTIC INCREASES
  Handled with extra points, to round off the character.
  Existing means looks okay.

PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE TABLES
  As above, yank out the "offline" random tables (i.e. those not needed
  when running the game but useful before or after the session) and put them in
  an extra pamphlet.

CULTURAL EQUIPMENT
  This section should probably be included in the section of the RQ4 book
  that deals with gear, perhaps broken as listed into "bundles". Keep
  gear with equipment, and the skills descriptions WAY in front with the
  character generation and career lists.

PROFESSIONS
  Like I noted before, I think I'm favoring narrower but more numerous
  occupation packs. As an example, Crafter might be split into the
  following:

  Craft Apprentice (x2)
    entry: any
    basic: Primary Craft 45, Secondary Craft 30, Craft Custom 45
    other: +15 to any 5 of the following:
        (list of skills that Joe Apprentice could get, not including the above 3)
                       
  Craft Senior Apprentice
    entry: Craft Apprentice
    basic: none
    other: +15 to any 5 of the following:
        (list of skills that Fred senior App. could learn or increase in)

  Craft Journeyman
    entry: Craft Senior Apprentice
        etc...

  Craft Master
    entry: Craft Journeyman (POWx3 roll)
       etc...

  The POW roll simulates that you might have to wait for an opening before you
  can get the rank of master.

  The Apprentice slot costs double since it includes a host of baseline skills
  that you need to be trained in. You get the skills listed in "Basic" up
  to that level...if you are already better then that you get no improvement
  (you already know more then what they are teaching you).

  The other training is added to existing skills, or to learn new skills.
  only those listed may be affected.

  There might be some other Craft subgroups that I have not listed.
 
  Subgroups could easily fit within the subgroups already presented for
  some occupations.

  The above career system is kinda influenced by that used by 2300ad.

BASIC CULTURAL SKILLS

  This would be part of a "Youth slot". Street Ruffian, country kid,
  noble child, etc. You get one "childhood pack" to fit your culture, and
  this should limit what careers you can go into (i.e. Low Noble may require:
  "Noble Child", "Foot Soldier and POWx1 roll", "Sergeant and POWx1 roll",
  "Low Officer and POWx2", "High Officer and POWx3", etc. So, you can be born
  into it, or get a title through career actions.

SKILL VERSUS SKILL
  Needing yet another roll if both get the same level of success is too
  clunky. Looking at the difference probably works as well, but I wonder
  how just using the "High Roller" would work:

     Example: Arman tries to sneak (skill 56%) past a guard (Scan 45%).
       Arman rolls a 22, the guard a 34. Both are simple successes, but the
       guard has "the high roll" and the slight advantage, and spots Arman.

  Now, while on a "difference from value required" basis, Arman has the
  better roll. But when it comes to speed, one can just look at the rolled
  values without needing to figure out math stuff. Hell, you don't even
  need to tell the players what the guard has as a skill.
  
  "You both succeed, but it looks like he has high-roll...you lose, sucker!" :)

  When listing a target to overcome (like a lock, for instance), the maker's
  Roll is pre-figured and noted:
    "The lock on this door is Rated at Succ/23"

  Thus, the guy picking the lock needs to get a special or better, or
  succeed with a roll over 23.

INCREASING SKILLS BY EXPERIENCE
  I think Very Hard skills should increase by 1d3-1, not just 1.
  Like Nick said, toss the fixed gain (my players haven't used it, and
  they don't seem to mind. However, I have not told them that they can take
  a fixed amount...:)

SKILL TRAINING AND RESEARCH
>>The length of time for one training or research session is a
>>number of hours equal to the current skill percentage.
  Yuck. I hated this. I get nit-picky about "Well, I have 50 hours, so
  I'll train my 15% skill, my 20% skill and my 13% skill". Too fine a
  resolution.

  I'm going to try the following:
     0-25% = 1/2 week 26-50% = 1 week
    51-75% = 1-1/2 week 76-100% = 2 weeks
             etc.

  Lot easier to break it up. Prevents the "while we are here for a few days
  I trin in this skill...what's that, 16 hours? Just enough" stuff I had
  BEFORE I went to a "5 training points per week, Skills need 1 point per
  10% of skill" way, which works pretty good as well. But I'm gonna try
  the 25% threshold way in the next game, see how it looks.

>>For a training session to succeed, the teacher must succeed in an
>>Instruct roll.

  I think it should be standardized as Instruct + 1/5 the skill being taught.
  This works for bargain, might as well make it a system-wide mechanic and
  keep things standard.

  It should be noted that the teacher MUST be better skilled then the
  student. I'm not sure if this note is in there.

>>With the GM's permission, players may use the previous experience
>>tables to give an estimate of training gains. Each background point
>>roughly equals 100 hours of training time. This gives players
>>and GMs a quick way to handle long periods of training or
>>research. It is especially helpful for NPCs.
  
  Axe this. Background generation is an abstraction used to get a handle
  on 16-30 years of non-played time. It has no place once the character is
  "up to date".

HUMANOID HIT POINTS PER LOCATION TABLE
  Should be up with the rest of character generation, not so far down.

RESULTS OF DAMAGE
  Should be down with the rest of the combat stuff.
 

SKILLS
  Comments on the skills, as previously promised (threatened? :)
  In general, the split/merge strangeness is kind of hard to fully take in.
  I think names should be "primitivized" in some cases.

  Acrobatics
    a wide-ranging skill that tries to do it all. I suggest limiting it to
    general leaping and rolling, with Breakfall included.
    Narrow the definition.

  Bargain
    Rename to "Haggle", perhaps?

  Battle
    I think this skill is unneeded. This function can be provided just
    as well by abstracting to (Primary Attack) + (Primary Defense) +
    (Scout <terrain of battle>) divided by 3.

  Beg
    I see three types of common speaking: Orate, Debate, and Fast Talk.
    The first is where you try to persuade by overcoming the emotions of
    the target, the second where you try to overcome the knowledge of the
    target, the third where you try to overcome the intelligence of the
    target (in trying to confuse or obsucate). Begging is an act that
    uses Orate (a more generic term is needed) combined with Street Custom.
    I fail to see the need for this skill on it's own.
   
  Breakfall
    Roll it into Acrobatics.

  Courtesan
    Perhaps this should be renamed to seduction. May be used as an add
    with certain interactive skills at 1/5th level. Thus, one may up one's
    Persuasion of a noble using orate, using a bit of sex appeal to up the
    ante. (should be decided by the referee if this is allowed in this case).

  Craft
    I think of "Craft" as "Work this substance to alter it's form".
    Craft gold, Craft wood, Craft stone, etc. "Craft Butchery" sounds
    real clunky, even though it technically is a "reduction of form" rather
    then an "enhancement of form" like the others.

    Don't list "Brew Venom" as one of the options -- it just tempts players
    to go for it. Reserve it for specific occupation slots or cults.

  Dance
    Why per culture? Why not just say you may always add 1/5th your
    Custom <Culture> to this skill when dancing for members of that
    culture. Dance is Dance is dance...the variations are cultural.

  Devise
    I like it as listed in RQ3 book 1 -- a skill in assembling and
    disassembling devices and traps.

  Disarm Traps
    Pitch it. Have a Trap Lore which you use to figure out the device, then
    use devise to disarm. Alternately, Use Devise +1/5 Trap Lore to disarm
    and Devise +1/5 Trap Lore to set.

  Escape
    Roll this into a "Wrestling Defense" skill.

  Intrigue
    Better to make this another Custom (Court Custom)

  Lip Read
    Note that the lower of this skill or the language skill required is
    used.

  Maneuver
    I personally like this skill.

  Martial Arts
    I feel that, to maintain the dangerous feel of a martial artist, that this
    skill is best used as an add to the proper skill.
    The style is decided when you learn the skill, and this style affects
    one area. Areas include "Holds" "Strikes" and "Weapons". The area
    covered adds the MA skill to the base skill. Areas not covered may
    add 1/5th the MA skill.

    For example, Kwanjoe the fast has Martial Arts (Holds) 55%. His
    Wrestling Attack skill is 70% and his Wrestling Defense skill is 60%.
    When grappling someone, he has an effective skill of 55+70, or 125%
    when considering specials, criticals, etc. When using his Katana with
    his 2H-Sword skill of 65%, he has an effective skill of 65+11, or 76%.
    He must learn Martial arts in another style to get the "full add" in that
    style. Fully trained MA masters are rare, and very dangerous.

  Martial Hold
  Martial Throw
    No longer needed if the above MA tweak is used.

  Memorize
    Chuck it. Use INTx5 if you need this.

  Mimic
    I would say this is a varient of Act. Is there really a need?

  Pick Locks
    Now folds under Devise, with Lock Lore.

  Read/Write [Lang]
    I like the comment by someone about making this "Script"

  Run
    I think this should have at least 40% base for us monkey boys, like climb
    has. Ducks have better swimming then we have running.

  Sail
    I think Boat can cover this well enough.

  Set Traps
    Fold into device, with Trap Lore.

  Torture
    This is probably better as a knowledge of how to break someone, rather
    then a fine steady hand at it.

  Treat Disease
  Treat Poison
    Combine under the skill of "Healer" or something.

  
SKILL DECAY
  Who cares. This is DEFINITELY more bother then the worth gained.
 
>> Example: A character with 90% Broadsword Attack and Parry is unable to
>> practice the skill for 90 minutes in a month's time, due to a serious
>> illness. His Braodsword Attack and Parry drop to 89%.

  You expect me to worry about 90 minutes per MONTH times god knows how many
  skills? Get real. If this has to be in the rules, put it in a grey-shaded
  optional box or sidebar or something.

    -- Burton


0,,


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Sat 05 Jul 2003 - 20:27:35 EEST