From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
Date: Sun 13 Jun 1993 - 21:32:18 EEST
Reply to OJ's post:
DAMAGE BONUS
None of the proposed changes seem different enough (to me) from RQ3
to warrant promulagation. If you're keeping bascially the same damage
bonus for a given strength, why not keep the old system? If you want
to change to damage based on the person rather than the weapon (like
PENDRAGON) that would warrant a rules rewrite. I think that most
players will not want to bother learning a rules change that gives them
practically the same average effect as before, unless it's A LOT simpler.
STRIKE RANKS
Again, why bother with minor changes unless they are simplifications
that give the same effect? If someone has playtested one of the proposed
variants and found that it makes a noticeable improvement in combats,
please give an example to the list. A lot of long time players already know
the existing system and it seems to me that changing a base rule should
involve streamlining or noticeable improvement.
SKILL CATEGORY MODIFIERS
On our sheets we usually don't even bother writing down the final skill,
just the basic skill and the modifier separately. Add them up at the time
the skill is used..
Remember you have to refigure modifers when other stats change due to
spells or disease or training, why single out POW? At least there
are no spells to boost POW. Perception and communication _should_ be
affected by POW, likewise (in my opinion) Agility, Parry, and Knowledge.
Much of the Dodge and Parry skills come from a mystic-seeming ability
to anticipate the opponent, this should be based on the same compartment
of the mind that affects Perception.
If the POW yo-yo is a problem, fix the yo-yo. Refiguring a couple of
skill mods is just a perturbation on what you have to do anyway when
POW yo-yos: magic points and magic skills modifier, spirit magic chance,
etc. which can involve twenty of thirty things already.
Finula says: The POW you're born with is your natural Power. This should
be the natural number POW tends toward. When your POW goes below it it will
quickly return to the natural level. Raising it above is an uphill battle.
Thus there are people born to be High Priests, etc. At least this is the
way it works in stories and myths. A powerful spirit is a powerful spirit.
Argin Terror and Jar Eel were obviously High POW and stayed that way.
How far your POW can get should be proportionate to what it started out as
Otherwise everbody would eventually end up with the same POW, which is not
the case.
(A mechanic for this would be to make POW Gain rolls
= (Original - Current) x 5% + 50%. I suggested this as a variant on the
Digest a couple of years ago. We tried it and it worked pretty well,
people were sort of 'destined' to be priests. Note this gives guy with 11
POW exactly the current POW roll. People with natural 15 POW have just
the POW gain roll of the RQ II Priestess. - paul)
If we remove POW from all modifiers except Magic, what the hell are we
measuring? I thought POW was a sort of personal force and willPOWER that
could affect you in many ways. The person with higher POW should have
more chance of winning a social confrontation, so POW SHOULD go on
Communication. If high POW people aren't more Perceptive than low POW
people, what the hell does POW mean apart from its use in magic? Is
mana completely divorced from talents like art that come under craft
skills? I think the guys who are suggesting deleting POW as a modifier
are attacking the symptom rather than the cause.
Suggested mechanics for solving the YOYO problem:
1. Keep base skills separate from modifiers. What do you guys do
when someone casts Coordination, rewrite the sheet or just
add a mod to the final skill? I think the stat mods should be kept out
of the base skill used for training and experience anyway. If we
went to a coarser system this would be easier to keep track of.
2. BASE POW MODS ON ORIGINAL POW. Thus the original rolled POW is a
significant stat, affecting the person throughout his life. Thieves
would love this, and absolutely no yoyo.
3. Make POW a stat trainable by meditation, prayer, communion with
spirits, magical exercise over time, etc. Change your magical currency
into something else (Like Glory). This is a pretty extreme change.
Anyway, other stats yoyo as well. Why not take Dex out of the Attack
and Parry modifiers, after all it changes every time someone casts
Coordination. All modifiers should be based on INT and SIZ alone.
>Magic Skills Category Modifier
>INT + DEX - 20
Dex is equally important to INT? And what does POW mean if it doesn't
even affect magic?
_______________
>FATIGUE
>The chance of fumbling increasing, even dramatically, was exactly
I have fought for sixteen years, I think that fumpble may go up a bit but
not by a factor of dozens. Exhausted people don't 'hit nearest friend'
twenty times more often, they're much more likely to just get hit
because they can no longer parry. Thus I think increasing the Autofailure
gives a much better picture of what happens - you're just too tired to get
that block or attack in. Many of those fumbles stem from people attacking
vigorously, when you get exhausted you're more likely to just slow down to
the point where you're missing blocks and attacks than have armor straps
break more often - armor straps break when you're running around, not when
you're standing there trying to conserve energy.
I feel pretty strongly about this.
_______________
SPECIAL COMBAT OPTIONS
These are pretty good. Can the person who wrote these make up a short
version (for the basic rulebook) and then the culture books for various
cultures add various special manuevers? For example the Troll manuever
that allows a free bite on a special hit should go in a Troll book,
martial arts manuevers
SKILLS
There should be a lot of skills in the draft now, prune later. I like
APP vs CHA
the idea of Hard skills that include Easier skills, which can start at
the Hard skill base if you decide to specialize. I like haveing a system
where you can put in more detail on the areas that are important; in
a gladiatiorial campaign many special fighting skills, in a sages
campaign many special knowledges. Is it really appropriate for Lhankor
Mhy and Irripi Ontor cultists to have single skills like Human Lore but
separate skills for Sword Attack, Sword Parry, Shortsword Attack & Parry,
etc.?
"Presence" is a good name for the social stat. We'll try to come up with
something else for our sorcery system. We always interpreted CHA as
Oliver suggests for Presence, some people are likable, some good-looking,
some commanding.
_________
Curtiss:
Curtis wants to drop POW from all modifiers. I reiterate my above
comments. I like basing mods on Original POW, at least it's a reason for
having it on the sheet.
> 2) Recalculate modifiers so that they balance more equally. It makes
This is a very good idea. I do this in my campaigns but use POW for
the purpose, adding it to Agility and Parry (based on my own experience)
and make it a secondary for knowledge, and it's the primary for Perception.
____
Graeme says:
> i) liked the RQIV damage bonus table. I think RQIII, like a lot
>of games, underestimates the importance of size and strength in
Fatigue: Graeme seems to agree with me, the proposed fumble chances are
just to high. It really is much more likely that you just will be too
slow to parry after a while. Also there is a big difference between fighting
another tired fighter and a fresh one.
On Graeme on Vows: Thanks, this is good stuff. I think Malkioni
sorcerors often rechannel their sexual energies into magic, Kingtroll
sorcerors have to eat special foods with plenty of life force to fuel
their magic. Live bugs, plants, intelligent beings freshly killed with
a club or strangling (swords and spears make holes which let the life
force leak out), etc.
Summary on Graeme's stuff:
Rokari: I agree here, note also restriction on food and drink:
"... have they never sipped the chill wine or sank teeth into the fresh
haunch of venison? Never felt the warm quiver of naked flesh? No, of
course they have not, and their bitter vows turn them into damnable
hypocrites or shrill-voiced saints admonishing us against life itself."
- Sir Harfien Vandervasse talking about Wizards
> The lesser freedom/greater power thing seems right, but I think
>doubling a sorcerer's PRE for sexual abstinence is way too much,
Uhh, I was thinking of this as just one of many Vows, each worth
X points of Presence, limit double the base. Either that or the
basic effects _require_ these vows and not keeping them diminishes you.
This isn't supposed to be a reward from some bookkeeping god but rather
a way of rerouting your natural energies into magic. The sorceror becomes
a dried up stick because his life force is fueling his magic.
> I really think the sexual aspect should be avoided in the core rules,
I never intended this to be in the _core_ rules, it just seems right for
Malkioni. Sex is an important part of the base life force and can be
powerful if sublimated into sorcery but for example Troll sorcerors fuel
their magic through special foods, Dwarves may actually use machines to
power spells, etc. This is just one of the main Malkioni modes to
channel your personal force into sorcerous power. Tantric sorcerors use
sexual energy also, but in a very different way from the Rokari.
> Re: Greg saying "All spells are individual skills". Has anyone shown
>the presence concept to him yet. I think he has an e-mail address.
I'm working on a second draft, will try to get that shown to him. With
all the current suggestions + zillions of our own ideas we have a bit to
to for the draft but will try to have it out soon, approximately beginning
of July.
_________
> I (and I think a lot of other gamers) like the "magic is
>a body of knowledge" concept more.
Including me.
> If Greg has ever told anyone, I would like to know _why_
>sorcery spells are one skill each.
Me too. It would make sense if spells were inherited from the Brithini
as complex things that no-one understood, but we are told that sorcerors
do spell research and discover new spells. Look at the God Learners, they
were able to _design_ new effects as desired.
> Please post as much of your rune-sorcery system as you have easily
OK, I will do so this week. A lot of it is now in the form of notes on
paer, so I will type in a rough draft. Please read it charitably as I have not
the time to polish it.
Rune magic: Graeme posts a possible system for recovery. There are
a bunch out there, perhaps someone could tabulate and send out various
alternatives in a neat package. I think this sort of thing is a good
idea. How much do we know about the theory of Rune magic anyway? I'll
try to post mine at some point. Theory might help us answer this question,
of course game balance is important too. I find Nick's Storm Bull example
compelling.
_______________
Well, this is long enough. More later,
Paul R.
___________
PS> Thanks everyone for all the comments.
0,,
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