From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@sartar.toppoint.de)
Date: Sat 19 Jun 1993 - 06:52:48 EEST
I have to disagree to David's attitude to skills.
A skill is something public domain, a thing to be discovered. Any skill can
be learned by anyone, special cult skills are only those silly skills nobody
else would even think of, such as Immanent Mastery's Charismatic Wisdom.
Ok, Sense Chaos/Assassin is different, but this special perception device has
to be awakened magically (by initiation or Geas) to work.
Any other skill can be researched by virtually anyone. Yes, this applies to
Martial Arts in Western or Theyalan society as well as Craft Iron among
trolls. Wether any member of this society would do so, and what the reactions
of other members would be, is a matter not relevant here. Craft Iron among
trolls is about as probable as animal husbandry among Mostali, darksense scan
among humans or butchery among Aldryami, i.e. directly contrary to innate
believes or biology, but I really don't see that Drive Vehicle is a cult
secret that requires initiation to Lokarnos or Mastakos, especially not if
you live in a Western society where sorcery rules. Whom do the Loskalmi
farmers turn to when they want to learn to drive their ox-carts to Sog City?
Or Ralian human Argan Argar worshippers?
I do agree that high level training is more readily available at temples
specialising in a certain skill, but even on Glorantha one person cantry to
duplicate another's achievements, and will finally come to a similar skill.
Lores tend to teach truths. If a truth can be perceived, it will be sooner or
later. The Aristotelians tried to keep the existence of the
pentagon-dodecahedron secret, as did the Egyptian priests with the height of
the pyramids. Both to no avail, because the secret they kept was an universal
truth.
The only exception to this are skills relying on some magical effect. I am
not animistic, so tell me what is the magic about driving an ox-cart, or
pulling a plow (very much the same skill, in my opinion)? The beginner may
not do it on a straight line, but he will somehow manage, sooner or later. So
ther is no reason at all to make it cult special skill in the sense that only
the cults mentioned can teach or even learn it, only in the sense that this
cult is ver likely to be able to provide highly skilled individuals in this
skill who might act as a teacher. Acting might be a favorite pastime of
Yelmic nobility in Dara Happa, without them being more than lay members (i.e.
occasional worshippers, probably by acting) in Donandar's cult. The finer
arts of wrestling I'd expect to be taught by a lean nomad rather than by some
city-dwelling Kralori soldier, and they are what I understand as Martial
Arts: throws, blocks, holds, maybe add in bear hug as one method of directly
causing damage.
Only non-universal truths like jurisdictional laws or cult history are
extremely hard to be learned by mere observation, but even social habits can
be explored by observation combined with trial and error. Provided errors
don't prove fatal, but even then the wise may be able to learn from others'
mistakes.
Sorcery: (views expressed here are my players' views, as far as I can second
or at least understand them)
My players complain about sorcerers being no match for equally experienced
spirit magic users. The really interesting thing about sorcery is to be able
to manipulate duration and range, and these are restricted to apprentices in
RQ3.
When I first encountered RQ sorcery and didn't read it in detail, I got the
impression that this was a system that allowed flexible magic spells, to be
adapted to the situation on hand by the magician. This proved to be wrong in
the RQ3 rules. The only spells that found creative application in our games
were Form/Set substance, which did many wonderful things the designers
probably never dreamt of. (RQ is the only game I know whrere collecting
dimond dust can be used to produce an if not flawless, then at least giant
single gem, and this is the only reason I don't discard the "gem price by
carat" table. The right table to apply would be the sorcery range or duration
table, being exponential.)
We always felt that sorcery ought to be a superior, almost scientfic approach
to magic, and used by somebody not a Freshman ought to be able to produce
better effects. Instead we get Damage Boost bereft of to hit modifiers,
Damage resistance which is virtually useless against Uz or strong opponents
with heavy weapons, a 8 point neutralize magic that is less likely to dispel
a three point spell than a 3 point spirit spell Dispel Magic, and harder to
cast, etc.
Shapechange species to species could have been a useful spell if applyble on
friendly targets, e.g. to aquire some innate ability like better speed or
longer reach, or simply not being recognized. As it is in RQ3, it's a pretty
useless and hopelessly overrated spell.
Use of Venom and Tap was discouraged in my campaign (and would likely have
led to burning at the stake, or worse fates).
The only reason to play a sorcerer was to become an apprentice and be able to
manipulate range and duration, and this single advantage is endangered now.
For those who have read Raymond Feist's Riftwar Saga, we always figured that
sorcery ought to resemble the magic of the greater path, while spirit magic
corresponded to that of the lesser path. All right, Midkemia is not
Glorantha, but there are some concepts both worlds hold in common, as well as
some places (Carse, Tulan...). And we are less than happy with restricitng RQ
to Glorantha. Glorantha is a fine example for a campaign world, and good
fiction, but not necessarily the place to run every campaign ever playeed
with RQ. The decision has been made, however, to cover all the peculiarities
of Glorantha in the rules. RQ ought to function when played in a different
setting, e.g Vikings or other alternate earth, or when played before another
fantastic background. It has to function in Glorantha, too. Maybe first of
all, but we rather see that as princeps inter pares.
Spirit world:
Why does David want to make the Malkionists invisible? Are they and the
Brithini and Vadeli immune to spirits? That would make them grosser than
RQ3-sorcerers without any manipulation limit and access to any amount of
magic points.
When the shaman says that the Monotheists have no soul, they mean as soon as
those wretches die, their souls wither and fade away, instead of roaming the
spirit plane. As long as they live, their soul lives within their bodies, and
can still be saved from their errant ways. No reason at all to give them
special advantages.
Spirit combat skill:
What is POW? Is it Willpower? Is it Soul strength? Magic Force? Luck? Harmony
with nature? With the spirit world?
I see little reason to make a wrestlig of wills a colourless rolling of POW
vs. POW when swordfights aren't resolved in DEX v. DEX or STR vs. STE. What I
miss is a description of the actual actions the characters take.
Spirit combat skill ought to be based on POW, too, maye as complementary
skill/characteristic. POW alone is dull, though.
Price lists:
Good comments there!
-- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de 0,,
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Sat 05 Jul 2003 - 20:27:58 EEST