From: David Cake (davidc@cs.uwa.oz.au)
Date: Sun 23 Jan 1994 - 07:34:25 EET
> By the way, the price tables with the availability column are new
> and very useful and deserve a mention.
>
I have always found that RQ seemed to lacking in price table that are both
fairly complete, and reliable. Actually I suspect that it is no worse that
other fantasy RPGs but
a) RQ3 particularly made the effort to reflect real historic price structures,
and so as GM I felt less comfortable about simpley naming arbitrary prices.
b) My current RQ players seem to have more unusual buying needs, probably
due to roleplaying.
A good long price list would be nice thing to see in the finished
product, including lots of things that are there for general comparitive
purposes rather than necessarily for PCs to buy (like grain and herd animals),
and various gloranthan useful info as well (like raw rune metal). Of course, I
haven't seen RQ4 so the current one might be great.
>
> Apparent Effects of Magic (109-111)
> Excellent! This is the single greatest innovation in the
> magic rules, and it is even usable outside of Glorantha.
>
If this is basically the same as RQ4 draft 2.0 then I thought that it was a
bit fireworksy. But having this section included is very definately a must,
these questions really need to be clearly stated somewhere (and neither RQ2 or
RQ3 did so.)
> Magic Items and Enchantments and so on
> These belong in their own chapter, which should follow all
> the magic systems.
Yep. Definate agreement.
>
> Battle Magic (117)
> This belongs in its own chapter, and if we're taking votes I
> think it should be called Spirit Magic. [A spirit magic chapter
> exists, but it describes shamans and is thus misnamed.]
>
I hate the term Battle Magic a lot. The ONLY thing that it has got going for
it is to appeal to the RQ2 conservatives. Common Magic is bearable, but I
think that it remains Spirit Magic to me.
Battle magic definately hails back to the dark old days (pre-RuneQuest!)
of D&D (obviously the term was invented before the publication of RQ1 :-), and
thus in the dark ages) and reflects a very combat oriented idea of life. I
guess that Humakti call their spells Battle Magic, but I can't see it being
a term used by the Ernalda cultists.
Why not retitle the 'Spirit Magic' chapter 'The Spirit World', and
put shamans and Spirit Lore descriptions and spirit plane encounters, etc.
in it?
>
> Duties of Initiates, Priests, Acolytes, Rune Lords, etc...
> I would like to see a distinction between those duties that
> are required by the god and those that are required by the flock
> and the cult hierarchy. Those duties assigned by the god must be
> followed on pain of falling into inactivity or sacrilege. Those
> duties assigned by the hierarchy must be followed on pain of
> being called to account by cult superiors. Attendance at High
> Holy Days would be an example of the first sort of duty, as would
> be Not-Initiating-into-Enemy-Cults. Tithes would be an example of
> the second sort of duty. Furthermore with tithes, especially with
> rune-levels, either you tithe a percentage of your time to a cult
> or a percentage of your income, but not both. Otherwise it gets
> to where a rune level is tithing 99% of all his time/money.
>
I tend to think that there is not such a clear distinction. To some extent the
cult superiours have jurisdiction over the Spirits of Reprisal in many cults,
for example.
> Rune Lords
> The name Rune Lord reflects a RQ2-style emphasis of runes
> over deities. How about calling them Masters instead? The rune-
> fans will like it because it echoes the Mastery rune which
> "runelords" embody, and I like it because it implies the major
> distinction between Priests and Masters, that the Priest lives
> mythically by repeating the god's actions in ritual and the
> Master lives mythically by perfecting those abilities taught by
> the god.
>
In practice, not a very important point, as most Rune Lords have a special
title anyway.
> Religions (134-143)
> You list the pantheons common to Maniria and Peloria in
> thumbnail format. Excellent! If you're taking votes, I vote that
> you add Yara Aranis (the Reaching Moon) to the thumbnails of the
> Lunar pantheon. She's an important enemy god for all those who
> oppose Lunar expansion, and especially for anybody who rides a
> horse (e.g. Pentans and Grazelanders). Yes, I just played a
> Grazelands scenario where seven of us ran up against *one* of
> those Reaching Moon witches, and she was bad news! Also,
> shouldn't Horned Man and/or Daka Fal be part of the Praxian
> pantheon? I want my ancestor worship! [Okay, I found Daka Fal in
> the shamanism chapter, but at least you should point it out here.
> Plus the summon ancestor spells are missing.]
>
> Extension spell (146)
> Extension and extended spells cannot be regained until they
> expire. Good call.
>
And this is the sort of simple fix I would like for sorcery instead of any of
this sacrificing permanent POW rubbish.
Yes, good call.
> SPIRIT MAGIC
> Spirit Magic should have its own chapter, but this chapter is all
> about Shamans, not about Spirit Magic. Call the chapter SHAMANS
>
As I said, how about a "Spirit World" chapter describing how interactions with
spirits (Spirit Lore), spirit abilities and the spirit plane, and spirit
specialists (shamans). Maybe even some details on summoning should go here?
I liked the way RQ4 2.0 had the spirit lore rules, so that shamans
were not the only people with some power over spirits, and normal people had
some folk lore etc.
> Shamanic Abilities
>
Not having seen the system, I agree with Loren from what little I can work out.
> SORCERY
> Consider changing the name of this chapter and the name of the
> magic system with it. Why? It has become increasingly apparent to
>
I am in mild agreement with Loren, but of his alternative names only
the term 'WIZARDRY' really seems to also accomadate its use by the Mostali, the
Brithini, Vadeli, and Kralorelans.
But I also do not have a big problem with retaining the current name.
>
> Adepts
> In traditional magical literature written in English the
> Adept is the highest grade of magician possible. An Adept should
> be superior to a Magus, Wizard, or whatever. I don't expect the
> terminology to change in RQ but it makes me wince every time I
> see it. Most neo-pagans who've read RQ have the same reaction.
>
I seem to recall that Adepts were the highest grade in the first sorcery draft,
any reason why it appears to have been changed back?
> Duration Table
> It's stuffed. Zzzabur's feats would be impossible using this
> system. Same with the Range table. Since duration has always been
> the game-balance-buster (e.g. Halcyon var Enkorth) and on occasion
> I will admit that game-balance isn't completely evil let's use
> the same fix we used for Divine Extension, which could stuff
> game-balance as effectively as Duration (e.g. Platewalker). MP
> used to power a wizardry spell do not begin to regenerate until
> the spell has expired. In addition MP borrowed from a crystal or
> MP storage device or spirit or whatever cannot be recharged until
> the spell they powered has expired. This ban on magic point
> regeneration while the spell remains should be true, not only for
> sorcery, ahem wizardry, but for all magic systems, a meta-rule of
> magic if you will, and could go into the Magic Overview chapter
> along with the other meta-rules.
Complete agreement. I presume that this Lorens comments mean that the linear
duration and range made it from the first draft, and I too hate the linear
tables. I like Lorens fix (which means Argin Terror can still cast 3 month
long spells using the MPs of his giant bound Pow spirits, but PCs are much
more limited). I think that sorcerers should have the potential to be very
powerful, and the linear tables really cut their potential, and don't really
aid play balance much until adept sorcerers start wandering around (at which
point I think the sorcerers begin to lose vs. Shamans/Priests if stuck with
the linear tables).
Divine Extension definately needs a fix, too. Platewalker aside, why
haven't the SunDome Temple in Sun County used their big truestone to cast
Shield 40 with Extension 28 (!!!!!!!!!!!) on a few of the Rune Lords, giving
them 80 ots of armour and countermagic for a period of time well in excess of
their lifespan. Instant herodom, and just requires that you get together the
requisite number of priests, cast the spell immediately (so it can be
regained from that point according to RQ3) and thenyour priests sit around
for a couple of days regaining it.
> Bring back the RQ3 tables for Duration and Range. They
> aren't all bad, they just need a limit.
>
Yes indeed. Rights for Sorcerers! Give them a break!
IMHO the biggest problem with sorcery was not overkill at high levels (HVA
was grotesque, but so are Platewalker and Adull Headshrink), but lack of
playability at low levels. Sorcery at low power was just too much of a lottery
(18% chance of casting Damage Boosting 14).
> CREATURES
> I realize that this chapter is incomplete. It's still very good.
>
> Madness Spirits (193)
> Consider including a few more Emotion/Madness spirits such
> as Sloth, Greed, Cannibalism, Sexual Frenzy, Depression,
> Hallucinations, Hunger, Thirst, Satiety (the victim won't eat),
> Murderousness, Suicidal Tendencies, and the whole modern catalog
> of psychiatric disorders explained as possessing spirits. I'd
> also like to see spirits/demons that can make people into
> Lycanthropes, Vampires, Berserkers, dogs into Barghests, corpses
> into Ghouls, and so on. For instance, we know from RQ3 that Ghoul
> spirits possess dead bodies to create Ghouls, but we've never
> seen a description of such a spirit or what happens if one of
> those spirits possesses a living body.
>
Yes. I would like the spirit plane ecology to be as wild and wooly as possible,
and less of these generic rules type spirits (like Magic Spirits, Intellect
Spirits, etc.), or at least more description of what they actually are or
might be rather than just having spirits defined by their abilities.
>
> whoah,
> +++++++++++++++++++++++23
> Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
> "Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
>
0,,
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