From: boris (mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com)
Date: Thu 10 Feb 1994 - 02:45:02 EET
Boris here, replying to Ray Turney's reply to me replying to him ...,
well, you know.
> To Boris Mikey,
> a) any reasonably clever shaman will either discorporate himself and move
> to within range of the control spells {spirit or rune} wihtout becoming
> visible. He can thus retain control of his spirits while not exposing
> himself to attack. OR he can set up a chain of command, you obey this
> spirit and attack what it tells you to. He then keeps his officer spirit in
> reach and it commands the others {if necessary} with spirit magic control
> spells.
I don't think a discorporate shaman can direct spirits on the mundane
plane unless he is visible; line of sight is specified for both Command
and Control. Having an officer spirit might work, but the officer spirit
would have to cast the spells itself (both spells specify that the caster
tells the target what to do). This effectively limits this to spirit magic
range; I don't think a shaman is going to be teaching divine spells to
spirits.
So let's see, you'll have to have a spirit trap that you can release the
spirit from without breaking (2x base POW cost), that the spirit can cast
spells out of (+1 POW), linked to MP storage (+1 POW). This has the boss
spirit. You Control him to cast Control on these other spirits, and then
tell them to move out and attack these people. I guess it would work, but
it takes 1 MR for you to Control and order it, plus 1 MR for him to Control
and order each of the others. By the time you've got 4 attack spirits,
that Wind Lord could have flown up and cut the shaman to bits. Or Commanded
his sylph to dribble him to death.
>
> Also, do spirits moving out of control spell reach escape from control.
> This is not obious. More to the point, is go attack him and come back an
> order beyond the shaman's power to give? If yes, then your point has merit,
> if not the shaman is merely slightly inconvenienced.
The spirit magic Control spell is specifically active while the creature
is being instructed. An active spell certainly needs to be within range
to function. So if the spirit finishes it's task out of range, then the
shaman cannot instruct it. A generous GM might allow complex instructions
such as "Attack that person until she is KOed, then come back." I don't.
I see Command and Control spells like computer instructions, each one
simple and distinct. "Possess him", or "knock her out", to me, is an
instruction.
The divine Command spell, on the other hand, is not active. Thus I guess
an argument can be made that the spirit can go out of range. However, it
is a rare shaman that has access to many Command spells; I haven't seen
any spirit cult write ups that had anything other than Command <Elemental>.
Maybe some have Command <Passion Spirit> of some type; I certainly don't
recall them. So my point on spirits moving out of range is valid, I
believe.
>
> b) Is actually the only thing I'm really concerned about; you've given it to
> me.
That's because I'm not sure I like it myself. I will accept allowing only
one spirit to attack a embodied being at once. I will accept rolling for
each attacker and taking the best result. I will not accept allowing a
friendly spirit to block other spirits from attacking embodied beings. One
of the Storm Bull special spirits has this ability as a special ability;
I don't like letting any Tom, Dick or Harry spirit do the same.
> I offer, for those who prefer multiple spirit attacks, the following
> options to deal with this:
> A) Cap the number of spirits that can attack at some arbitrary number, say
> 4, to correspond to the physical limit on the numbers of attackers, while
> allowing automatic defense at current MP's;
I don't like the second part of this. Making comparisons between spirit
> B) Allow the defender to defend with full stored MP's including POW storage
and mundane combat is problematic, but if someone engaged in melee takes
no defensive actions, their toast on a stick. On the other hand, one
always defends against spells at POW. Maybe a compromise. If one doesn't
spend an action defending in spirit combat, then one defends at half MPs.
This parallels the all out defend option, where one defends with 2xMPs.
And regardless, any points from Spirit Screen or Spirit Block always add
(something accidentally left out of the draft).
> hundred points in crystals and MP storage while closing;
Oooh, I *hate* this. If the super rune lord wants to defend that much,
have him cast Spirit Screen, which is a common divine.
> C) Allow any number of spirits to attack, but only the most effective attack
> takes effect {the rest are subsumed in it}. This maintains consistency with
> the magical rule against stacking spells, rather than physical combat. It
> is not at all clear that physical combat is what we should be maintaining
> consistency with, anyway.
I like this option for the attack.
> On reflection, I favor always defending at current MP, and only the most
> effective spirit attack on any given round takes effect. This avoids total
> defenselessness {just as one is never totally defenseless against incoming
> MindBlast} and knocking an enemy out with a swarm of rubbishy spirits in all
> out attack mode, in one round. It still allows concentration of spirits,
> but makes concentration vs dispersion against several enemies a real
> tactical choice, since their will now be diminishing returns to attacking
> one enemy with all your spirits.
I still think there should be some penalty for ignoring the spirits dive
> I also think enemies with a lot of stored MP should be able to take MP loss
bombing you. Someone who is more concerned about attacking and parrying
*shouldn't* do as well defending in spirit combat as someone who is
concentrating on it, focusing their will. Maybe defending at 0 MPs is
too rough, but MPs/2 seems appropriate. At least to me.
> in spirit combat from stored MP, but regard this as far more debatable.
I really hate this idea. Spirit combat is personal. This is like saying
that if you cast spells and someone later gives you some storage, you can
tank up your MPs from the storage. Do you allow that?
Sorry this went on so long. Do you thing this horse we're beating is
dead yet, Ray? ;-)
-- Boris Mikey, aka |"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to Maurice Beyke | strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com| believe; if you wish to be a devotee of Intergraph doesn't want | truth, then inquire." my opinions. Nietzsche 0,,
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