Re: Forests and wildlands in Heortland, Sartar, Tarsh

I have been pondering this; my personal workaround for this is that slash and burn and normal real world ecological progress is replaced in Glorantha by the forces of magic, creation and deity. The more I think about it I can't see elves burning down part of a forest, its like setting fire to your relatives! Yikes! I mean, sometimes we all feel like it but christmas only comes once a year eh?

Regards
Rob

• In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, Peter Metcalfe <metcalph@...> wrote:
  >
  > David Dunham wrote:
  >
  > >I do think that the widespread and destructive God Learner burning
  > >has skewed the population somewhat in the favor of elves associated
  > >with trees that propagate better with fire.
  >
  > Looking at the sources, I see that only the woods of Vralos were
  > burned and that the woods of Enkloso continued to exist throughout
  > much of the age.
  >
  > >To me, these aren't really deviant elves. Unless the fact that they
  > >are raising a crop of pet humans makes them deviant.
  >
  > Since I was the person that originally called them deviant, it
  > would be much more constructive to acknowledge that I
  > was criticizing their supposed tolerance for having their
  > forests regularly burned down rather than contrive a
  > fictitious excuse that they are deviant for having pet
  > humans.
  >
  > >IMO the Vralos
  > >elves are willing to let their pet humans practice a lifestyle that
  > >doesn't encroach upon the aldryami woods, since they are useful
  tools
  > >against Fonrit.
  >
  > How is burning down woods a useful tool against Fonrit?
  > The Fonritans would be all to happy to have the humans
  > burn down trees on the grounds that it reduces cover
  > for troops that might oppose them. Looking at the history
  > of the Season Wars, I see it was the Fonritans that
  > was doing the burning while the Orlanthi were busy
  > using winter powers.
  >
  > >They need enough pet humans to be able to raise
  > >armies, so they need to tolerate agriculture.
  >
  > Except that the idea that the Elves would not tolerate
  > agriculture is a strange one since they themselves
  > practice agriculture of a sort. All that the Elves need
  > humans to do would be to cast food song before they
  > cut down a plant.
  >
  > >Slash & burn is
  > >probably more forest-friendly than plowing, so they can allow this,
  > >within limits.
  >
  > And here we come to the nub of the debate. David assumes
  > that the choice is between slash-and-burn and plowing and
  > so on "probable" grounds which he never specifies, the elves
  > should tolerate slash-and-burning.
  >
  > That the Umathelan Orlanthi do not use the plow is a reasonable
  > one in light of the sources describing them as "primitive". It
  > does not mean that they have to use slash-and-burn or even
  > hunting-and-gathering. There is in fact a third alternative, which
  > I have mentioned to David before, namely horticulture as
  > practiced by the Highlanders of Papua New Guinea which
  > sustained a population of about three quarters of a million in
  > a mountain range before they were contacted in the 1930s.
  >
  > Given that Umathela sustains less than twice that number
  > of Orlanthi over a vastly larger area and given that the main
  > crop of Umathela is peas, the idea that the Orlanthi would
  > be horticulturists is to me to be a no-brainer.
  >
  > >And Pamalt drove the forests out of the south, which is clearly
  > >different as well -- destructive burning as opposed to renewing
  > >burning.
  >
  > There's no difference IMO and the Fonritans right next
  > door exterminated the Kovano Elves through burning when
  > they conquered the land.
  >
  > --Peter Metcalfe
  >