Heortling Marriage and Divorce

Jeff Richard replying to me:
> Ernalda is patient and far-sighted. Orlanth is the Storm and will
> act accordingly. Ernalda is the Earth and will act accordingly.
> These aren't "dumb decisions" - these are mythic acts that are in
> accordance with their divine natures.

I don't disagree about these behavior patterns being intrinsic. The point is how people receive these stories, both real world players and Gloranthan characters.

>> Heortling women leave the clan of their birth, while Heortling men >> settle into a nest made for them.

>> So to say: Ernalda gives up the Earth Palace to live in Storm Village.  

> She does both.

Which is what I meant to say in the brackets that follow.

> And Orlanth also lives in the Earth Palace. The
> Storm Village and the Earth Palace are linked - both gods are in
> both places simultaneously.

The presence of Orlanth in the Earth Realm is a lot less clear, and earlier debates (still in the RuneQuest era) sort of staked it out that Orlanth's powers in the earth realm are negligible. At least his powers to cause mischief (adventurous, warrior, ruler), his role as fertility bringer probably survives.

>> (In mythical reality, she keeps the Earth Palace, but in mundane >> reality, her followers give up their birthrights).

> Amongst the patrilineal Heortlings (at least most Heortling clans),
> that is right, but that is a clan thing.

When most clans do it, and only a small minority doesn't, its a feature of the culture.

> Some clans do it in reverse.

And their ways have been called "Esrolian" for that.

>> Affinal kin is not treated the same way as kin is. This means that
>> Orlanth's brothers are kin to the Storm Tribe, but hypothetical 
>> Earth Tribe members that were not participating in the Making of 
>> the Storm Tribe are excluded.

> OK, let's not talk mythological relationships, since they are by
> necessity going to be contradictory and confusing. Let's just talk
> the Heortlings.

Indeed.

> Ranulf is of the Blue Jay clan. He marries Durene of the Wild Cat
> clan. Ranulf possesses enough status that the Blue Jay and Wild Cat
> clans agree that Durene will come to the Blue Jay clan. As a
> result, their children will be Blue Jays. However, Durene can
> still call upon the support of her Wild Cat kinfolk and if Ranulf
> mistreats Durene, there is likely to be a feud between the Blue
> Jays and the Wild Cats.

So far so good.

Now, the Blue Jay clan starts a feud with the Red Fox clan, long time allies and marriage partners of the Wild Cats. Especially, sisters and some of the girlhood friends of Durene are now prominent members of the Red Fox clan. This causes the relation between Durene and the Blue Jays to cool down, and Ranulf suffers more from this than most Blue Jay folk. The stead becomes unhappy, and finally Ranulf and Durene agree that the marriage can't go on, despite them having three fine children.

Durene gets to pack up her things, and some extra from her prosperous time with Ranulf. She leaves three children behind, and returns to the Wild Cat clan.

Now, how often, and under what circumstances, will she be able to see her children?

The Wild Cats don't really have a position for a divorced woman, and after a while Durene gets married to Orlgandi of the Stout Oaks, another ally of both the Wild Cats and the Red Foxes.

To complete the Icelendic saga, 12 years later, the Blue Jays raid the Stout Oaks. The Stout Oaks raid back. Durene's sons stand with the defenders of the Blue Jays. Sorrow time all over.

So, Durene gets the same deal as Ranulf?

> Women tend to have a broader social network than men - they have
> both their birth clan AND their marriage clan. Men tend to focus
> solely upon their birth clan.

Which does create problems like the one I illustrated above. With the prevalence of male chieftains, the birth clan ties get played down in clan politics, especially in times of conflict.

>> The usual marriage contract assigns the offspring to the clan where
>> the couple lives, which is (excepting the Esrolian Marriage) the
>> husband's clan. Thus, a woman who divorces usually divorces from
>> husband (there will be reasons for that) _and_ children. Which 
>> makes divorce rather rare, I would think.

> Year marriages are far more common.

More common than divorces, you mean?

Year marriages bring another problem. Where will a child be born if it takes the woman till mid-year to get pregnant?

Or is it common to start a year marriage if sexual intercourse has led to a pregnancy between the couple?

What if the couple has a child while unmarried, then marries? Who gets the child?

> And although the norm is that the
> husband gets the child, there are often many exceptions.

More to the point, the husband's mother gets a say in appointing care of the child (along with the loom house).

What is the role of father-less children (i.e. children born outside of marriage) in a woman's birth clan? Any stories about this?

>> This is the big issue of strictly exogamous clans, really. >> It breaks the bloodline ties of the females.

> Here I disagree. Women keep their birth kin - they are not
> Separated from their clan (like a Humakti, Uroxing or other
> cultist). If Durene needs assistance from the Wild Cat clan,
> she can call upon them. In some stories, the wife's kinfolk
> are more relevant than the husband's.

I don't disagree with that. Does this extend to her children, too?

Does this remain even if Durene leaves the Blue Jays?

What does this mean if the woman loses her marriage kin? Not just through divorce. How does a Heortling widow fare? What is the mythical precedence for that?

As I said, we dug a bit into these problems when designing an Ernaldan adventuring player character for our family game.

Next Ernaldan character coming up I'll propose a Enferaldan with her husband as sidekick (if unavailable as player character). Could make interesting handling with the Backboy being the brains of the outfit.

The woman keeps her birth kin, but if she returns to them the birth kin won't keep her - they'll marry her off, again and again if necessary. The wives of her brothers will see to that.

All of this does create a situation that can be perceived as strongly patriarchalic. I would expect a Yelmic society to take exception at unbefitting mistreatment of their daughters, too, e.g. if their husbands turn out to be serial monogamists like Henry VIII of England.             Received on Fri 06 Jul 2007 - 05:38:36 EEST